Can you use a single ticket out of sequence?

[4SRKT]

Specific example. A single from Llandundo Junction to Llandudno costs £2.10. A single from Blaenau Ffestiniog to Llandudno Junction costs £6.40, but through to Llandudno costs only 10p more.

I want to travel in the morning from the Junction into Llandudno, then later that day from Blaenau just up to the Junction. Can I buy a single Blaenau > Llandudno from the Junction in the morning and travel over the two sections out of sequence, saving £2.00?

 

[A60K]

Specific example. A single from Llandundo Junction to Llandudno costs £2.10. A single from Blaenau Ffestiniog to Llandudno Junction costs £6.40, but through to Llandudno costs only 10p more.

I want to travel in the morning from the Junction into Llandudno, then later that day from Blaenau just up to the Junction. Can I buy a single Blaenau > Llandudno from the Junction in the morning and travel over the two sections out of sequence, saving £2.00?

The short (and legal) answer is no, as your ticket would cease to have validity when you reach the destination on the ticket. Whether you could get away with it in reality would depend on whether you got gripped on the first journey from the Junction to Llandudno - if so you would be stuffed!

 

[4SRKT]

The short (and legal) answer is no, as your ticket would cease to have validity when you reach the destination on the ticket. Whether you could get away with it in reality would depend on whether you got gripped on the first journey from the Junction to Llandudno - if so you would be stuffed!

If I was relying on not getting gripped it would just be more sensible not to buy a ticket in the first place, and buy something off the guard if he showed up.

Given that I'm not trying to do avoid a gripping (hence the question in the first place!), would the fact that I would be travelling on the first train of the day from the Junction, before it's possible to have come up from Blaenau make any difference?

 

[323235]

It would still be an attempt to defraud the railways of the correct fare.

 

[Greenback]

If I was relying on not getting gripped it would just be more sensible not to buy a ticket in the first place, and buy something off the guard if he showed up.

Given that I'm not trying to do avoid a gripping (hence the question in the first place!), would the fact that I would be travelling on the first train of the day from the Junction, before it's possible to have come up from Blaenau make any difference?

No, it's more a case of the ticket being 'used up' as soon as you arrive at the destination printed on it.

In this instance, you are in fact making two journeys, and so should purchase the two tickets.

 

[4SRKT]

No, it's more a case of the ticket being 'used up' as soon as you arrive at the destination printed on it.

In this instance, you are in fact making two journeys, and so should purchase the two tickets.

But if I travelled from Blaenau to the Junction, and the from the Junction to Llandudno I would still be making two journeys. The same two in fact. I believe what you're telling me (I wouldn't ask advice of experts and then tell them I don't believe them), but the rule is illogical and inconsistent.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think my earlier post was very clear, sorry!

The Blaenau to llandudno ticket os for a journey that starts at Blaenau and finishes at llandudno. You can break that jounrey anywhere along the line, without travelling back on yourself.

Your proposed travel plans are two seperate journeys, as the validity of the ticket ends as soon as you arrive at the destination station printed on the ticket. Once you arrive at Llandudno, the ticket validity has ended, just as it would if you had traveleld from Blaenau or anywhere else on the line.

 

[4SRKT]

I don't think my earlier post was very clear, sorry!

The Blaenau to llandudno ticket os for a journey that starts at Blaenau and finishes at llandudno. You can break that jounrey anywhere along the line, without travelling back on yourself.

Your proposed travel plans are two seperate journeys, as the validity of the ticket ends as soon as you arrive at the destination station printed on the ticket. Once you arrive at Llandudno, the ticket validity has ended, just as it would if you had traveleld from Blaenau or anywhere else on the line.

No, you were very clear. I understand about the validity ending at the destination station, and that this is a hard and fast rule. I also understand about breaking the journey being different. I'm saying that I don't think it's necessarily sensible that it is 'different'.

Don't worry, I'm not going to try and cheat or anything, which is why I was asking for clarification. I won't go to Llandudno, that's all. And I'll save 10p to boot

 

[Greenback]

Nah, I'm not worried, you seem like a decent person! And there's little sensible or even logical about the ticketing system, we have!

IIRC, you're getting a verye arly train from Holyhead and then going on the WHR and Ffestiniog aren't you?

 

[4SRKT]

Nah, I'm not worried, you seem like a decent person! And there's little sensible or even logical about the ticketing system, we have!

IIRC, you're getting a verye arly train from Holyhead and then going on the WHR and Ffestiniog aren't you?

Basically I'm getting the 05:32 WAG train, getting into the Junction at 06:19. I want to get the bus at 07:45 from Llandudno to Caernarvon, and would have liked to have gone up the branch to get it. This is purely to kill some time, rather than hanging around the Junction for over and hour and a half and getting the bus there instead. TBH given that I will have exhausted the delights of the McDonalds breakfast by about 06:30 I may yet shell out that £2.10! It's years since I did the branch and 3 miles in the book is 3 miles in the book.

 

[Greenback]

Have you considered a one day ticket?

http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_doc.asp?cat=2772&doc=16297&Language=1

Although it's called a rover it is a one day ticket valid on all buses and trains. A 3 zone ticket for £12 may be worthwhile, given that you'll be paying £8.60 if you do go to llandudno, plus the bus fare to Caernarfon (I don't know how much that is!)

 

[4SRKT]

Have you considered a one day ticket?

http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_doc.asp?cat=2772&doc=16297&Language=1

Although it's called a rover it is a one day ticket valid on all buses and trains. A 3 zone ticket for £12 may be worthwhile, given that you'll be paying £8.60 if you do go to llandudno, plus the bus fare to Caernarfon (I don't know how much that is!)

The single to Caernarfon from Llandudno (or Llandudno Junction) is £3.10, so not quite worth it. Thx anyway.

EDIT: Thinking about it, buying one of these things would mean I could get the train from Llandudno to Bangor instead of the bus. For an extra 40p this is probably a good thing. Just a shame the WAG train doesn't stop at Colwyn Bay for a bit of extra loco hauled mileage.

 

[Greenback]

Exactly, I don't know what other spare time you might have there, but you would have the felxibility of making additional journeys by either bus or train.

We always pay for a day ticket if there is one, even if it;s a bit dearer, as we often make extra journeys we hadn;t planned. We will be in Cornwall next week, and we will be getting a Ride Cornwall ticket one day, when we gill to Land's End and St Ives. Depending on how we feel, we might fit in a trip to Mousehole while near Penzance as well! when we get back to St Austell we may well go for a drink in Fowey using the bus too!

 

[4SRKT]

Do you know where to buy it from? It's not clear on the Gwynnedd Council website.

 

[Greenback]

You should be able to buy it on the bus from the driver, on any ATW train or at a staffed ticket office. Just like the Ride Cornwall ticket!

 

[4SRKT]

You should be able to buy it on the bus from the driver, on any ATW train or at a staffed ticket office. Just like the Ride Cornwall ticket!

Good. I'll buy it at the Junction, before getting on the 06:51 to Llandudno.

 

[shinkansen1966]

It would still be an attempt to defraud the railways of the correct fare.

Funny this. Attempting to take goods from a supermarket without paying for them is almost universally shunned and is called 'shoplifting'.

And yet, here we have a possibly reasonable enquiry about using market based rail fare structures to save money. And which may lead to fraudulant rail travel.

IMHO, such is that state of our rail fares policy and the cost of rail travel that train operators invite 'abuse' of their revenue collection. Of course, I don't condone fraudulent rail travel. I *just* understand why it might happen.

65p for a sainsbury tin of beans is good value. A £20 day return for a 40 mins of train travel each way, might be considered as poor value. Just a thought....

 

[Greenback]

Funny this. Attempting to take goods from a supermarket without paying for them is almost universally shunned and is called 'shoplifting'.

And yet, here we have a possibly reasonable enquiry about using market based rail fare structures to save money. And which may lead to fraudulant rail travel.

IMHO, such is that state of our rail fares policy and the cost of rail travel that train operators invite 'abuse' of their revenue collection. Of course, I don't condone fraudulent rail travel. I *just* understand why it might happen.

65p for a sainsbury tin of beans is good value. A £20 day return for a 40 mins of train travel each way, might be considered as poor value. Just a thought....

I agree that this was reasonable enquiry, but I don;t see how this is ane xample of market based pricing! A single from A-B has never been valid from C-B and then A-C later on, it's always been a simple ticket to get from where you are to where you wnat to be.

We may not agree with it, we may not think it's logical, but it's always been the same so we can't blame the TOC's for this particular example!

The value for money part is right, it's ridiculous that there can be such a range of differences in fares across the country.

 

[googolplex]

Funny this. Attempting to take goods from a supermarket without paying for them is almost universally shunned and is called 'shoplifting'.

And yet, here we have a possibly reasonable enquiry about using market based rail fare structures to save money. And which may lead to fraudulant rail travel.

IMHO, such is that state of our rail fares policy and the cost of rail travel that train operators invite 'abuse' of their revenue collection. Of course, I don't condone fraudulent rail travel. I *just* understand why it might happen.

65p for a sainsbury tin of beans is good value. A £20 day return for a 40 mins of train travel each way, might be considered as poor value. Just a thought....

Your supermarket analogy would be more on par with finding a mis-priced xbox in Tesco and getting the item free (until they changed their policy), as it's exploiting loopholes in the company's policies.
However as stated, the rail journey doesn't fit into that as it's been determined that it's outside of the rules, and so isn't a loophole.

 

[northwichcat]

I think a restaurant analogy would work better than a supermarket one.

The usual food delivery would be starter>>main course>>dessert and would the restaurant deliver it in reverse order? Probably not but would they let you have a starter and main course, pay for that leave and come back later for a dessert? Much more likely.

A supermarket or shop does legally have to sell you the product for the advertised price IF they sell it (they can withdraw the product if it's been mis-priced and then advertise it at the correct price later on.) The exception to this is where an 'obvious' mistake has been made e.g. Xbox for £2.52 instead of £252.00 where they can just say that's a mistake if you want it it'll be £252.

 

[krus_aragon]

Good. I'll buy it at the Junction, before getting on the 06:51 to Llandudno.

The staff at the Junction and Colwyn Bay are quite familiar with issuing the zonal rover ticket. A lot are sold at the Bay, as a two zone ticket to Bangor is a few pence cheaper than an anytime return from Colwyn Bay to Bangor!

(The ticket can be issued on board from an avantix machine too)

 

[moonrakerz]

NRCoC:

"17. Using a return ticket
A return ticket (including a two-part return ticket) is only valid for the outward
journey shown on that ticket if the ticket is completely unused. You may not use the outward part of a return ticket after you have used the return part."