Boris Johnson Announcement Discussion - 10/05/20

[HLE]

Personally if the great unwashed want to cram onto a beach or into a park, then it shows their intelligence levels. I'd walk past or go elsewhere if I can see that it's going to be hard to keep my distance. I'm sure the police will be more visible in our parks and beaches issuing fines as a result.

Turning to the lake district, Cornwall and other holiday destinations. Carry on with your 'Go home' message (which you have today). A fair amount of your families and friends will work in businesses reliant on tourism from those of us from the inner towns and cities. If the majority of the public decide to heed your advice long term, even when you're back open, you've had it.

 

[HLE]

It never did.

Correct. Only advised briefly from memory to stay in if possible - and this was before March 23

 

[Nicholas43]

Is there any indication yet of whether the Secretary of State is going to amend the actual rules, as opposed to the guidance about how ministers hope magistrates will decide, if the CPS presses charges, is a 'reasonable excuse' for leaving the place where you live ?

 

[thejuggler]

I didn’t hear what Boris said - Did he mean the actual drinking water supply, or the sewage treatment ? Some countries are testing At the sewage Treatment works to get an undertaking of the concentration of the virus in a particular area.

What was asked and the response:

Robert Courts (Witney) (Con) [V]
I thank the Prime Minister for his update on progress in testing and tracing this invisible killer, but can he confirm for the people of West Oxfordshire that the new systems we are putting in place will, in the fullness of time, be able to detect local flare-ups?

The Prime Minister
Yes indeed. The intention is that the covid alert system, in time, will be sufficiently sensitive and flexible to detect local flare-ups, so that, for instance, if the covid is detected in the water supply of a certain town or in a school in an area, steps can be taken on the spot to deal with that flare-up and measures taken to keep the R down locally as well as nationally.

Alludes to it being in the water supply.

 

[Yew]

What was asked and the response:


Robert Courts (Witney) (Con) [V]
I thank the Prime Minister for his update on progress in testing and tracing this invisible killer, but can he confirm for the people of West Oxfordshire that the new systems we are putting in place will, in the fullness of time, be able to detect local flare-ups?

The Prime Minister
Yes indeed. The intention is that the covid alert system, in time, will be sufficiently sensitive and flexible to detect local flare-ups, so that, for instance, if the covid is detected in the water supply of a certain town or in a school in an area, steps can be taken on the spot to deal with that flare-up and measures taken to keep the R down locally as well as nationally.

Alludes to it being in the water supply.

It feels like that was a misspeak, from context, I imagine he meant "waste water"

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Why has Boris just talked of the virus being detected in the water supply? If it can be we have a real issue on our hands.

With modern water treatment facilities, this shouldn't be a problem but there is no body of scientific evidence to support/refute this.

For a coronavirus to be transferred via the water cycle, it must have the ability to live in human poop, retain its infectivity, and come in contact with another person’s eyes nose or mouth.

Again, the advice is clear: WASH YOUR HANDS - especially after going to the toilet !

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Wicked - but I like it!

However, the advice to such people dallying with a married woman has changed. Do NOT consider future marriage to a person who does not follow the guidance. After all, if they won’t listen to the government, what chance have you got?

 

[DannyMich2018]

I still very strongly think that Opticians and Dentists after many weeks now should revert back to resuming non urgent work such as check ups and eye tests etc, this is health after all and is very important. Of course precautions need to be made and social distancing enforced even if it means patients wearing PPE and masks etc.

 

[3rd rail land]

I still very strongly think that Opticians and Dentists after many weeks now should revert back to resuming non urgent work such as check ups and eye tests etc, this is health after all and is very important. Of course precautions need to be made and social distancing enforced even if it means patients wearing PPE and masks etc.

I would like this to happen. I am now very overdue an orthodontist appointment. My last appointment on 15th April was cancelled and my appointment on the 13th May has also been cancelled.
Obviously in such a scenario social distancing can't be observed. I think it is ok to see patients that are low risk like myself but not high risk people such as old people or those with underlying conditions.
Last time I saw my orthodontist the staff insisted on on taking my temperature which was in mid March.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there any indication yet of whether the Secretary of State is going to amend the actual rules, as opposed to the guidance about how ministers hope magistrates will decide, if the CPS presses charges, what is a 'reasonable excuse' for leaving the place where you live ?

Yes, the Regulations will be amended, that's precisely why it was Wednesday and not immediate.

 

[Belperpete]

I still very strongly think that Opticians and Dentists after many weeks now should revert back to resuming non urgent work such as check ups and eye tests etc, this is health after all and is very important. Of course precautions need to be made and social distancing enforced even if it means patients wearing PPE and masks etc.

I agree about opticians (and similarly barbers and hairdressers), but how exactly is a dentist going to work on a patient wearing a mask?

When drilling and various other procedures, there can be spray from the mouth, which would be a particularly high risk to the dentist and assistant.

 

[Mojo]

When drilling and various other procedures, there can be spray from the mouth, which would be a particularly high risk to the dentist and assistant.

But surely drilling implies that there must be some kind of defect; this is work that is still allowed to be taking place now, it is only routine checkup appointments that are cancelled.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I agree about opticians (and similarly barbers and hairdressers), but how exactly is a dentist going to work on a patient wearing a mask?

When drilling and various other procedures, there can be spray from the mouth, which would be a particularly high risk to the dentist and assistant.

The dentist and his assistant wear masks...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The dentist and his assistant wear masks...

Getting to be a real problem , and having spoken to several times to a dentist (but not of course being able to see one - rationing at urgent treatment centers is unbelievable) - there is a view that temperature treatment on checking in and doubling up on masks would , in most cases , allow treatment in most cases.

Trust me - 4 weeks on painkillers and antibiotics is extremely challenging.

 

[nlogax]

The dentist and his assistant wear masks...

I imagine dentists will be wearing full perspex facial shields for a while once they start reopening.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Getting to be a real problem , and having spoken to several times to a dentist (but not of course being able to see one - rationing at urgent treatment centers is unbelievable) - there is a view that temperature treatment on checking in and doubling up on masks would , in most cases , allow treatment in most cases.

Trust me - 4 weeks on painkillers and antibiotics is extremely challenging.

I feel your pain as I've been there a few times. Painkillers were next to useless for me

 

[scotrail158713]

But surely drilling implies that there must be some kind of defect; this is work that is still allowed to be taking place now, it is only routine checkup appointments that are cancelled.

It’s maybe different down south but up here it’s only genuine emergencies that are being seen. Unfortunately even for issues like toothache, unless it could kill you, then it’s not being seen.

The dentist and his assistant wear masks...

Or her

 

[Dr Hoo]

A family member is a dentist and I can confirm that the processes are extremely strictly controlled. Even for quite straightforward procedures a surgery can only be used once per hour, with sanitising and ventilation between appointments. For more complex work that generates a large 'aerosol' of particles a surgery can only be used once per day.

The practice 'works its way down the corridor' each day. Compared to several appointments per surgery per hour under normal circumstances capacity is vastly reduced.

I hope that ChiefPlanner and others can find treatment soon.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

It doesn't appear to be in place yet (hence Wednesday being when this starts) but the FAQ is here:

National lockdown: Stay at Home

Coronavirus remains a serious threat across the country. Find out what you can and cannot do.

www.gov.uk

It stops short of saying no public transport for non-essential purposes but strongly implies it, e.g.:



I think we will see shift in this in a week or two, I suspect they are wanting to see (a) how much services can be ramped up reliably (a cancellation could pose particular spread risk, for instance, so 100% punctuality/reliability must be the aim), and (b) how much spare capacity there is. This is a bit unfair on non-drivers, but I don't see how they could do otherwise.

Latest government advice on public transport has been published today on this link.

People with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19

Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19, or a positive test result for COVID-19.

www.gov.uk

Under the "is your journey necessary" section is this advice;

"Travel safely during the coronavirus outbreak
You should avoid using public transport where possible. Instead try to walk, cycle, or drive. If you do travel, thinking carefully about the times, routes and ways you travel will mean we will all have more space to stay safe.

Is your journey necessary?
Before you travel, consider if your journey is necessary and if you can, stay local. Try to reduce your travel. This will help keep the transport network running and allow people who need to make essential journeys to travel. You can reduce your travel by:

• working from home where possible
• shopping less frequently and shopping locally"

I'm sure we'll all interpret it our own way as it's so vague but I would take it to mean that yes, it's okay to use public transport to meet up with your partner in a public place if you live some distance apart.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure we'll all interpret it our own way as it's so vague but I would take it to mean that yes, it's okay to use public transport to meet up with your partner in a public place if you live some distance apart.

I'm not sure how meeting anyone in person could in any way be construed as "necessary" at present. "Tolerated to a limited extent" is as far as I would go.

The "necessary" test has effectively been removed for bicycle, walking and car but not public transport.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I'm not sure how meeting anyone in person could in any way be construed as "necessary" at present. "Tolerated to a limited extent" is as far as I would go.

The "necessary" test has effectively been removed for bicycle, walking and car but not public transport.

My conclusion is that if something isn't specifically forbidden then, by definition, it must be permitted. Had the guidelines said "do not use public transport to visit a partner or friend" I would accept your point. But, like I say, we'll all interpret these guidelines to suit our own arguments!

 

[Bletchleyite]

My conclusion is that if something isn't specifically forbidden then, by definition, it must be permitted. Had the guidelines said "do not use public transport to visit a partner or friend" I would accept your point. But, like I say, we'll all interpret these guidelines to suit our own arguments!

The law is a bit backwards about this at the moment. In essence, you can't leave the house is the law. There is then a specific list of exemptions. The updates for tomorrow aren't in yet though.

 

[bramling]

The hospitality sector definitely won't be opening any time soon, which is why the CJRS needed to be extended. It is a shame to see that the announcement didn't include more about cutting it back for sectors that weren't forced to close, although I expect that's what the reference to "start sharing the cost" may be - some companies may find the portion of wages covered by it decreasing.

I thought he was looking at July for hospitality! Being serious, yes your point is well made - they should be focussing on furlough for the bare core of occupations which physically *cannot* function at the moment. I sense a growing disgust from those who are at work at the notion that we are collectively subsidising a six-month-long bank holiday for some - no wonder the lockdown is surprisingly popular. If we’re spending that amount of public money then there should damn well be some pretty strict controls to ensure the scheme is not open to abuse. I already know of businesses who have used the scheme to get a few weeks of holiday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought he was looking at July for hospitality! Being serious, yes your point is well made - they should be focussing on furlough for the bare core of occupations which physically *cannot* function at the moment. I sense a growing disgust from those who are at work at the notion that we are collectively subsidising a six-month-long bank holiday for some - no wonder the lockdown is surprisingly popular. If we’re spending that amount of public money then there should damn well be some pretty strict controls to ensure the scheme is not open to abuse. I already know of businesses who have used the scheme to get a few weeks of holiday.

I would agree, and would say that it should over time be restricted to only those businesses which are not legally permitted to operate or can prove that a substantial amount of their income would derive from such businesses with no other alternative viable. For instance, companies that presently launder bed linen for the hotel business, while not prohibited from operating, probably lack business at present and I'd include them.

 

[Mag_seven]

For discussion of the Chancellors announcement today about the extension of the furlough scheme please see this thread:

We must enable the economy to recover as soon as practicable

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/18428195.prolonged-shutdown-risks-irreparable-damage-york-economy/ A LEADING business figure in York has warned that the current shutdown cannot be sustained for a prolonged period without causing irreparable damage to the economy. As the Government considers...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[MikeWM]

The law is a bit backwards about this at the moment. In essence, you can't leave the house is the law. There is then a specific list of exemptions. The updates for tomorrow aren't in yet though.

It has been a significant problem throughout the last couple of months that the law and the advice hasn't matched. Until now the advice was stricter than the law (eg. on only exercising once a day - in England this was never the law, just the advice).

At the moment the law is stricter than the advice, which is even worse. (I've seen it suggested that a 'reasonable excuse' for being out is that 'the Prime Minister said I could' - but not sure whether you'd want to rely on that in a court

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I feel your pain as I've been there a few times. Painkillers were next to useless for me

Very challenging indeed , and a major quality of life "downer"

I may be referred to an urgent centre on Friday - but "acceptance" is very limited one gathers. There seems to be some representations to the Govt by various dental professional agencies. One can only hope.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It has been a significant problem throughout the last couple of months that the law and the advice hasn't matched. Until now the advice was stricter than the law (eg. on only exercising once a day - in England this was never the law, just the advice).

At the moment the law is stricter than the advice, which is even worse. (I've seen it suggested that a 'reasonable excuse' for being out is that 'the Prime Minister said I could' - but not sure whether you'd want to rely on that in a court

That is supposed to be fixed by Wednesday which is why the "unlimited exercise" and related provisions doesn't apply until then.

 

[bramling]

Very challenging indeed , and a major quality of life "downer"

I may be referred to an urgent centre on Friday - but "acceptance" is very limited one gathers. There seems to be some representations to the Govt by various dental professional agencies. One can only hope.

Sorry to hear you’re in this position - hope you get better soon.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I thought he was looking at July for hospitality! Being serious, yes your point is well made - they should be focussing on furlough for the bare core of occupations which physically *cannot* function at the moment. I sense a growing disgust from those who are at work at the notion that we are collectively subsidising a six-month-long bank holiday for some - no wonder the lockdown is surprisingly popular. If we’re spending that amount of public money then there should damn well be some pretty strict controls to ensure the scheme is not open to abuse. I already know of businesses who have used the scheme to get a few weeks of holiday.

Wasn't it starting from July, assuming there is no large scale increase in cases after things start being eased up? Certainly I don't expect to see most hospitality places fling open their doors and go back to their previous levels of business or staffing. Especially when you consider social distancing and what is likely to be a reluctance of many to use such places initially. As for pubs or smaller restaurants etc, forget it. Indeed even places that could open may decide not to because they'd lose more money by being open due to costs etc.

As for it being a "6 month bank holiday". Rubbish. I live with someone is currently furloughed and they can't wait to get back to work. It certainly isn't a holiday for a lot of people!
And as someone who is working 100% of my normal hours, I have zero "disgust" at people on the scheme. Infact I am happy that people have been able to escape being made redundant on mass.

I would agree, and would say that it should over time be restricted to only those businesses which are not legally permitted to operate or can prove that a substantial amount of their income would derive from such businesses with no other alternative viable. For instance, companies that presently launder bed linen for the hotel business, while not prohibited from operating, probably lack business at present and I'd include them.

As I said how do you draw the line though? Especially some industries have quite long supply chains and the like that are being affected.