Boris Johnson Announcement Discussion - 10/05/20

[Sad Sprinter]

Lots of criticism from the "Stay Alert" message- but it seemed quite clear to me. Your not confined to your home and can stay out for as long as you wish, but don't feel fooled into a sense of false security. The virus is still present.

Would have liked some more information on when to see families and friends, however I reckon that this would increase the exposure people have to the virus. I think this would be made clearer in the next lockdown review.

I also think theres a lot they don't want to say. Some papers I have read over the past few weeks said social distancing measures would have to be in place for a year. That's not really what people want to hear, bad news has to be drip fed, it's better to just not say when it will end than giving an ending point many months away.

 

[Meole]

The problem is that we rely on goods being imported by lorry from France via the channel ports. Nobody is going to be going on holiday at the moment, almost everyone on the boats is transporting freight.

That said, they could work on the basis of changing tractor unit and driver at the border, and maybe they should.

6500 tractor units and drivers required at Dover ferryport daily, 6500 units and drivers go to storage somewhere nearby, and a similar number coming off the tunnel for the same treatment. Presumably owner drivers would be prohibited ?
Costs would increase significantly, and incoming freight runs through the UK on cheaper diesel bought from Europe of course.

 

[underbank]

I'd like to see that anyway to be honest. We shouldn't have good and bad schools, we should improve them all so you attend the local one on foot or by bicycle.

When the experts finally agree on how to do that it may happen. But don't hold your breath. It's been 60 years and counting to try to square the circle. And no, throwing more money into the mix isn't the answer. We've had 60 years of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic with tinkering around the edges, but completely failed to make any serious changes to the way we educate our young.

 

[LAX54]

Of course the virus, like any other flu, is not going away, it is here, and will stay here, there maybe a vaccine, there may not be a vaccine ! There are many illnesses that do not have vaccines, so this will just go on forvever it seems ! just seems like the whole world hit the panic button, maybe as a result of rolliing news channels and good old facebook and twitter !

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Will passengers arriving by ferry from France also be subject to quarantine measures? To my surprise, ferries ARE still operating

Dover to Calais Ferry Crossings | Ferries to Calais

Sail on a Dover to Calais ferry with DFDS. Enjoy fast ferry crossings, duty-free shopping, and explore Europe & France. Book your trip today

www.dfds.com

 

[delt1c]

Westminster acted to late and is looking to ease restrictions to early, no quarantine on travelers from France or Eire why? we may not like the restrictions but they are there to protect. If there is a 2nd epedemic it may not be as easy to contain and there is still no vaccine available. The UK has one of the highest number of cases and deaths.

 

[carlberry]

Lots of criticism from the "Stay Alert" message- but it seemed quite clear to me. Your not confined to your home and can stay out for as long as you wish, but don't feel fooled into a sense of false security. The virus is still present.

Would have liked some more information on when to see families and friends, however I reckon that this would increase the exposure people have to the virus. I think this would be made clearer in the next lockdown review.

I also think theres a lot they don't want to say. Some papers I have read over the past few weeks said social distancing measures would have to be in place for a year. That's not really what people want to hear, bad news has to be drip fed, it's better to just not say when it will end than giving an ending point many months away.

Social distancing measures will be in place until the virus mutates to a safe version (unlikely within a year), it disappears from the UK (unlikely within a year), there's an effective treatment (i.e. one that reduces the fatality rate by a serious amount) which is possible or a vaccine is produced tested and distributed (likely a year).

 

[carlberry]

Will passengers arriving by ferry from France also be subject to quarantine measures? To my surprise, ferries ARE still operating

Dover to Calais Ferry Crossings | Ferries to Calais

Sail on a Dover to Calais ferry with DFDS. Enjoy fast ferry crossings, duty-free shopping, and explore Europe & France. Book your trip today

www.dfds.com

Apparently the rules wont apply to French arrivals (I assume because they don't have Covid19 in France??)

BBC Website

 

[Esker-pades]

Apparently the rules wont apply to French arrivals (I assume because they don't have Covid19 in France??)

BBC Website

It's probably as simple as it will drastically reduce the workload.

 

[Ianno87]

It's probably as simple as it will drastically reduce the workload.

Less workload and only a relatively small % of UK arrivals, from a specific set of countries (Holland, Belgium, France, Spain, Ireland) would go 'missed'. So a relatively small number of infections that slip through won't have a massive effect on R.

 

[carlberry]

Less workload and only a relatively small % of UK arrivals, from a specific set of countries (Holland, Belgium, France, Spain, Ireland) would go 'missed'. So a relatively small number of infections that slip through won't have a massive effect on R.

The exemptions so far announced only applies to France and Ireland.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Less workload and only a relatively small % of UK arrivals, from a specific set of countries (Holland, Belgium, France, Spain, Ireland) would go 'missed'. So a relatively small number of infections that slip through won't have a massive effect on R.

Because the virus knows it’s only supposed to get infect one person at a time ???

 

[Ianno87]

Because the virus knows it’s only supposed to get infect one person at a time ???

100 people bringing Covid into the country by ferries is better than 1000 people bringing it in by ferries and air.

The exemptions so far announced only applies to France and Ireland.

So an even smaller % then.

 

[delt1c]

Apparently the rules wont apply to French arrivals (I assume because they don't have Covid19 in France??)

BBC Website

France have had 176,970 cases, 26380 deaths and 56217 recovered

 

[Mogster]

Unbelievably dumb of the UK Government if they don’t apply quarantine to ALL inbound travellers.
In Australia, they have had under 100 deaths. Most initial cases were imported by people arriving back from overseas, so they instigated quarantine procedures.

Aus and NZ are hardly the global hubs that London and NY are. Fewer inbound travelers, geographic isolation, low BAME populations of African descent and general low population densities will probably help also.

Even across Europe there’s a large difference in infection and case fatality rates. S and W Europe high, Eastern and N Europe much lower. Even across Germany by far the greatest number of cases are in the S and W states.

The differences are so large that “they did the right things” doesn’t cover it.

 

[scotrail158713]

Lots of criticism from the "Stay Alert" message- but it seemed quite clear to me. Your not confined to your home and can stay out for as long as you wish, but don't feel fooled into a sense of false security. The virus is still present.

Have to say I agree with you on that. They needed to subtly move away from terrifying people from leaving their house, and this probably is the best way of putting it.
Not that it actually affects me, as we’re still getting the “stay at home” message up here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So an even smaller % then.

While the UK doesn't, the idea of "trusted countries" in things like airport security is quite well-known. Switzerland for instance trusts the UK, so UK arrivals can go straight into departures in Switzerland, and do at Geneva. The idea of having trusted countries (i.e. you trust their outside borders and domestic measures) regarding coronavirus is not that far-fetched, and doesn't need to go in both directions (using the airport example, the UK doesn't trust Swiss security[1] - it's not reciprocal and doesn't have to be).

[1] The UK doesn't trust any other country with regard to airport security. But even if it did I wouldn't be inclined to trust Switzerland due to the availability of Swiss army knives for purchase airside

 

[HLE]

I too don't understand the confusion. The previous rules remain in place, just with those changed announced.

The banning of gatherings of more than 2 people from different households still applies I think?

 

[High Dyke]

From my town we have 200-250 pupils packed onto two small single decker buses for 15 miles to get to their school of choice, could it be possible to change the rules to “you must attend your nearest school” which certainly would change that commuter flow, combined with perhaps staggered start times by an hour for different year groups?

If there's that amount crammed into "two small single decker buses" then the operators(s) and the local authority need to address that situation. are you sure the passenger amount is correct and that it is only "two small single decker buses"? From the best of my knowledge one single decker bus can have a capacity up to about 70 passengers, but no higher nor any standees. Sorry if this is straying off-topic.

Personally, I would like to have heard how many people have actually had the virus and have recovered. We have heard on a daily basis how many have died, and sadly that is something that will happen, but should not be forgotten. At least how many had survived would have been a bit of good news for a change...or perhaps those people aren't newsworthy enough.

 

[yorksrob]

The Government has now published the fifty page guidance document:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884171/FINAL_6.6637_CO_HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

Make of it what you will.

 

[CeeJ]

Really worried about the line:

People may drive to outdoor open spaces irrespective of distance, so long as they respect social distancing guidance while they are there, because this does not involve contact with people outside your household.

One warm weekend and beaches and country parks will be swamped. Not fair on rural communities in Cumbria and their limited facilities should face the brunt. People really should stay local.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Really worried about the line:


One warm weekend and beaches and country parks will be swamped. Not fair on rural communities in Cumbria and their limited facilities should face the brunt. People really should stay local.

But if people are in their cars they're effectively isolated from the rest of the public. And when they're outdoors the chances of them infecting anyone are minimal, and they'll meet fewer people on the fells than they would in their local park.

And with the pubs, cafes, hotels and tourists attractions staying shut they won't be coming into contact with the locals in any indoor space either.

I can't see the problem myself; yes there may be tourists visiting the Lakes but nowhere near as many as there would be in a normal summer season.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

So here's my personal issue.

Apparently after 8 weeks apart my partner and I (we don't live together) can meet up in a park. However we live 12 miles apart and neither of us drive, though there is a reasonable bus and train service between our two homes. Under the circumstances would it be acceptable for one of us to use public transport so we can meet outdoors?

 

[yorkie]

So here's my personal issue.

Apparently after 8 weeks apart my partner and I (we don't live together) can meet up in a park. However we live 12 miles apart and neither of us drive, though there is a reasonable bus and train service between our two homes. Under the circumstances would it be acceptable for one of us to use public transport so we can meet outdoors?

I don't see how this isn't allowed? You are encouraged to travel by car, but if you cannot do so, and it is too far to walk/cycle then my interpretation is that it is acceptable to use public transport.

Do we have sight of the actual legislation yet?

 

[Esker-pades]

So here's my personal issue.

Apparently after 8 weeks apart my partner and I (we don't live together) can meet up in a park. However we live 12 miles apart and neither of us drive, though there is a reasonable bus and train service between our two homes. Under the circumstances would it be acceptable for one of us to use public transport so we can meet outdoors?

I'd say 'no', because we should avoid public transport unless necessary. I don't think your trip counts as necessary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see how this isn't allowed? You are encouraged to travel by car, but if you cannot do so, and it is too far to walk/cycle then my interpretation is that it is acceptable to use public transport.

Do we have sight of the actual legislation yet?

It doesn't appear to be in place yet (hence Wednesday being when this starts) but the FAQ is here:

National lockdown: Stay at Home

Coronavirus remains a serious threat across the country. Find out what you can and cannot do.

www.gov.uk

It stops short of saying no public transport for non-essential purposes but strongly implies it, e.g.:

5.3 Can I use public transport to get to green spaces?

You should avoid using public transport wherever possible.

I think we will see shift in this in a week or two, I suspect they are wanting to see (a) how much services can be ramped up reliably (a cancellation could pose particular spread risk, for instance, so 100% punctuality/reliability must be the aim), and (b) how much spare capacity there is. This is a bit unfair on non-drivers, but I don't see how they could do otherwise.

 

[yorkie]

I'd say 'no', because we should avoid public transport unless necessary. I don't think your trip counts as necessary.

Is there still a concept of a 'necessary journey'? I thought we'd got away from that now?

If so, my interpretation is that the term 'necessary' is applying to whether you are able to use a car, cycle or travel on foot?

I don't see how there can be a deliberate attempt to restrict the freedom of movement of non-car drivers; this surely would be unlawful I'd imagine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there still a concept of a 'necessary journey'? I thought we'd got away from that now?

If so, my interpretation is that the term 'necessary' is applying to whether you are able to use a car, cycle or travel on foot?

I don't see how there can be a deliberate attempt to restrict the freedom of movement of non-car drivers; this surely would be unlawful I'd imagine.

This is very clearly not the case. Car use has now moved away from essential purposes[1], as has cycling and walking (because you can just call that exercise). For public transport, the concept of "essential journey" remains.

It's not a "deliberate attempt to restrict the freedom of movement of non-car drivers" - they are effectively "collateral damage" because public transport poses the highest risk and has very limited capacity for now.

[1] Ish. I don't believe there is any scope to "just go for a drive", but it's clear that there are enough reasons to go for one that enforcement is basically impossible as one of them will always fit.

 

[CeeJ]

But if people are in their cars they're effectively isolated from the rest of the public. And when they're outdoors the chances of them infecting anyone are minimal, and they'll meet fewer people on the fells than they would in their local park.

And with the pubs, cafes, hotels and tourists attractions staying shut they won't be coming into contact with the locals in any indoor space either.

I can't see the problem myself; yes there may be tourists visiting the Lakes but nowhere near as many as there would be in a normal summer season.

Increased risk of emergency services, including mountain rescue and coastguard, increased pressure on local essential shops (much longer queues for small shops), frequent touching of gates, etc.

 

[yorksrob]

It doesn't appear to be in place yet (hence Wednesday being when this starts) but the FAQ is here:

National lockdown: Stay at Home

Coronavirus remains a serious threat across the country. Find out what you can and cannot do.

www.gov.uk

It stops short of saying no public transport for non-essential purposes but strongly implies it, e.g.:



I think we will see shift in this in a week or two, I suspect they are wanting to see (a) how much services can be ramped up reliably (a cancellation could pose particular spread risk, for instance, so 100% punctuality/reliability must be the aim), and (b) how much spare capacity there is. This is a bit unfair on non-drivers, but I don't see how they could do otherwise.

Definitely constructively ambiguous.

Perhaps we will get more of a steer when they've done more research on expanding social bubbles.

Perhaps a glimmer of hope.