A career as a signaller

[Tom Quinne]

I do really feel for those who are presently in the leisure industry and looking for another career. That industry has really been wiped out for the forseeable future and the vast majority of those affected will be young and on zero hours contracts. Yes compared to ex police, military etc their CVs won't be as extensive but they will still have points to offer. Someone who has worked bar or waited on is well used to working unsocial hours, far more unsocial than a signalling job will have! Also they will probably still have 30 or more years service to offer, compared with someone who has left the police (for example) with a pension already in the pot but still wants a well paid job for a couple of more years.

I have certainly seen a fair few who have come into the job purely for the money, no sooner have they passed out they are chasing the higher grades, that's fine, but some clearly have no interest in the job whatsoever, it is just about money.

Signalling is a fantastic job for someone who is interested. It is a pleasure to go to work and get very well paid for it. Why then do I know people who spend the whole shift moaning? I sometimes get sick of hearing it and tell them to put their notice in if they hate it that much.....

I would say working a 12hr night turn, then onto a series of 12hr day turns is a little more hard going mentally and physically than any bar or leisure industry role.

Having to make safety critical decisions, deal with the public and often semi intelligent contractors is a little more taxing than getting someones bear order correct?

As a Police Officer you’ll be expected, and demanded to be 100% alert at the end of 3 12hr shifts with a full stomach, fully hydrated as someone who as had a full unbroken nights sleep.

This will include driving to A grade calls, dealing with violent offenders as well.

Hence why ex 999 and force’s staff are often much better suited to railway jobs.

I say to my womb gremlins good education, forces career then railway - don’t waste your 20s in crappy jobs with no future it won’t serve you well in the next chapter of your life.

As for moaning, it’s often because there is so much that can be done to keep the job going, or better than Isnt - they why I moan anyway.

 

[Leo_724677]

How do you know which you will do?

I was originally a pool signaller and therefore it wasn’t confirmed where I was going to end up once I finished school. I did AB at school (which was great) and ended up going straight to a ROC after doing TCB conversion. So I think if you end up being a pool signaller it will all depend on which course is available so that your LOM can send you to school at the earliest opportunity.

 

[Ell887]

I would say working a 12hr night turn, then onto a series of 12hr day turns is a little more hard going mentally and physically than any bar or leisure industry role.

Having to make safety critical decisions, deal with the public and often semi intelligent contractors is a little more taxing than getting someones bear order correct?

As a Police Officer you’ll be expected, and demanded to be 100% alert at the end of 3 12hr shifts with a full stomach, fully hydrated as someone who as had a full unbroken nights sleep.

This will include driving to A grade calls, dealing with violent offenders as well.

Hence why ex 999 and force’s staff are often much better suited to railway jobs.

I say to my womb gremlins good education, forces career then railway - don’t waste your 20s in crappy jobs with no future it won’t serve you well in the next chapter of your life.

As for moaning, it’s often because there is so much that can be done to keep the job going, or better than Isnt - they why I moan anyway.

Fantastic post Tom. That pretty much sums up my early adult life/career to date. Being in one of those jobs has felt like an 11 year learning curve rather than going to work. Ups and downs but ultimately it’ll have hopefully set me up for another decent career down the line.

There are people suited for all kinds of roles that will be working a job that doesn’t anywhere near fulfil the potential they have.

After reading this thread for the past couple of weeks, being a signaller is becoming really attractive. It’s so diverse I just can’t imagine what it’d be like day to day. Would a comparable role be something like an Air Traffic Controller?

 

[LOM]

I would say working a 12hr night turn, then onto a series of 12hr day turns is a little more hard going mentally and physically than any bar or leisure industry role.

Having to make safety critical decisions, deal with the public and often semi intelligent contractors is a little more taxing than getting someones bear order correct?

As a Police Officer you’ll be expected, and demanded to be 100% alert at the end of 3 12hr shifts with a full stomach, fully hydrated as someone who as had a full unbroken nights sleep.

This will include driving to A grade calls, dealing with violent offenders as well.

Hence why ex 999 and force’s staff are often much better suited to railway jobs.

I say to my womb gremlins good education, forces career then railway - don’t waste your 20s in crappy jobs with no future it won’t serve you well in the next chapter of your life.

As for moaning, it’s often because there is so much that can be done to keep the job going, or better than Isnt - they why I moan anyway.

I am sure this will go down like a mug full of cold sick but I have to say I have seen mixed results with ex police and ex forces signallers. They only seem to come in two varieties, brilliant folk who totally ‘get’ the job and will do anything for you or arrogant tossers with a major chip on both shoulders. You are clearly one of the good guys who gets it but there are plenty of the other type out these sadly. They do always interview well though!

 

[Tom Quinne]

I am sure this will go down like a mug full of cold sick but I have to say I have seen mixed results with ex police and ex forces signallers. They only seem to come in two varieties, brilliant folk who totally ‘get’ the job and will do anything for you or arrogant tossers with a major chip on both shoulders. You are clearly one of the good guys who gets it but there are plenty of the other type out these sadly. They do always interview well though!

Totally agree about two kinds, I work with a ex copper and have worked with a ex marine both are arrogant so-in-so’s.

The Marine we nicknamed (behind isback obviously! lol) the Mad Marine, as he wasn’t happy working where we did and wanted a move to a centre closer to his home.

He said to our LOM in front of us on the ops floor every time he drove to work he had to fight the urge to drive his car into the central reservation! I kid you not!

Not long after he went LTS never to be seen again.

I’m lucky my old man was a life long railwaymen so i grow up with the job, he was very disappointed I don’t got straight onto the railway but joined the other “job” first. My womb gremlins are all interested in a career on the railway, I make no secret of the negatives to them but they must take after me in the brains department...they still want to come onboard!

 

[amanda08]

All this talk has made me nervous for my interview result! I'm currently manager of a small hotel and previously had my own shop for 10 years. If i've interviewed against ex forces/police etc, I'd better be prepared for a negative answer by the sound of things.
Hopefully will be put out of my misery one way or another this coming week

 

[Ell887]

I am sure this will go down like a mug full of cold sick but I have to say I have seen mixed results with ex police and ex forces signallers. They only seem to come in two varieties, brilliant folk who totally ‘get’ the job and will do anything for you or arrogant tossers with a major chip on both shoulders. You are clearly one of the good guys who gets it but there are plenty of the other type out these sadly. They do always interview well though!

I’d say that’s a very accurate representation of the type of people who leave a uniformed service, unfortunately. I had this conversation yesterday funnily enough and a few of the arrogant type could have enough of an effect to tar the good ones with the negative brush.

Out of interest, would it usually be the ones who have had a full career elsewhere (age 40ish) who make up the bad side. Know everything, can’t be persuaded otherwise, opinionated (often a poor opinion but staunch with it).

 

[Tom Quinne]

Fantastic post Tom. That pretty much sums up my early adult life/career to date. Being in one of those jobs has felt like an 11 year learning curve rather than going to work. Ups and downs but ultimately it’ll have hopefully set me up for another decent career down the line.

There are people suited for all kinds of roles that will be working a job that doesn’t anywhere near fulfil the potential they have.

After reading this thread for the past couple of weeks, being a signaller is becoming really attractive. It’s so diverse I just can’t imagine what it’d be like day to day. Would a comparable role be something like an Air Traffic Controller?

I think ATC is more pressured to be honest, you can’t tell a 747 to “wait” signal.

As a signaller you concentration can power down and power up as required, but you do need to keep a certain level throughout.

ATC I think (I stand corrected) work a few hours on then break, then on again?

We are only entitled to 40 minutes in 12hrs (I think) on my link we get x2 60 in 12hrs so much much more than minimum.

But as ATC your dealing with exclusively highly trained professionals, as a signaller your not...I’ll leave it at that....

This in itself is draining especially when you’ve a lot on, you need to be 110% clear with instructions. Take a look at Network Rail safety videos on YouTube - especially the one with the line Block. Unfortunately I’ve a heart of stone, but this one got me.

long story short a work crew take a block of the UP line, COSS and Signaller don’t follow the correct procedure and the signaller blocks the DOWN line.

Work crew enter a tunnel on the UP line, train comes...and bang they leave minus one bloke.

These videos have a back story to them, this one was that the bloke who was hit had dropped his daughter off at swimming before his shift.

The last scene was the bloke in a seriously disabled state being fed by his daughter after the accident.

I was a new father of a little girl the first time I watched it, it sit with me every time I give a line block.

UP LINE ONLY BLOCKED etc really make it clear to the boys on the ground, XYZ line(s) blocked all over open etc.

Im sure some think I think their thick but I don’t want body bags on my panel, I tell them as much then the less switched on want stupid things doing - they always switch on after that!

 

[Tom Quinne]

All this talk has made me nervous for my interview result! I'm currently manager of a small hotel and previously had my own shop for 10 years. If i've interviewed against ex forces/police etc, I'd better be prepared for a negative answer by the sound of things.
Hopefully will be put out of my misery one way or another this coming week

Sorry Amanda, it’s not exclusively like that it’a a fact that a significant number do make the grade. But the firm do have a significant target of recruiting ladies into the grade.
As long you don’t mind farting, swearing and manly odours you’ll be fine lol

best of luck!

 

[Tom Quinne]

I’d say that’s a very accurate representation of the type of people who leave a uniformed service, unfortunately. I had this conversation yesterday funnily enough and a few of the arrogant type could have enough of an effect to tar the good ones with the negative brush.

Out of interest, would it usually be the ones who have had a full career elsewhere (age 40ish) who make up the bad side. Know everything, can’t be persuaded otherwise, opinionated (often a poor opinion but staunch with it).

Do you know the two chaps I’m on about !
Yes...!

 

[Ell887]

I think ATC is more pressured to be honest, you can’t tell a 747 to “wait” signal.

As a signaller you concentration can power down and power up as required, but you do need to keep a certain level throughout.

ATC I think (I stand corrected) work a few hours on then break, then on again?

We are only entitled to 40 minutes in 12hrs (I think) on my link we get x2 60 in 12hrs so much much more than minimum.

But as ATC your dealing with exclusively highly trained professionals, as a signaller your not...I’ll leave it at that....

This in itself is draining especially when you’ve a lot on, you need to be 110% clear with instructions. Take a look at Network Rail safety videos on YouTube - especially the one with the line Block. Unfortunately I’ve a heart of stone, but this one got me.

long story short a work crew take a block of the UP line, COSS and Signaller don’t follow the correct procedure and the signaller blocks the DOWN line.

Work crew enter a tunnel on the UP line, train comes...and bang they leave minus one bloke.

These videos have a back story to them, this one was that the bloke who was hit had dropped his daughter off at swimming before his shift.

The last scene was the bloke in a seriously disabled state being fed by his daughter after the accident.

I was a new father of a little girl the first time I watched it, it sit with me every time I give a line block.

UP LINE ONLY BLOCKED etc really make it clear to the boys on the ground, XYZ line(s) blocked all over open etc.

Im sure some think I think their thick but I don’t want body bags on my panel, I tell them as much then the less switched on want stupid things doing - they always switch on after that!

Thanks for the insight. Plenty of responsibility to remain competent at all times. Which should be a given in any job but with so much on the line (no pun intended), it really does require more than any normal job it seems.

I don’t work as an ATC by the way, have been around the environment though so was trying to put it in some context. Thanks

 

[Signaller2020]

I was originally a pool signaller and therefore it wasn’t confirmed where I was going to end up once I finished school. I did AB at school (which was great) and ended up going straight to a ROC after doing TCB conversion. So I think if you end up being a pool signaller it will all depend on which course is available so that your LOM can send you to school at the earliest opportunity.

Hi Leo,

If you don't mind me asking, as a pool signaller how long did you have to wait to get a start and place at sig school? And did you just keep an eye on your emails to see you got a place or did the hiring manager call you?

I've been told I'm being put into a pool of signallers but it's anyone's guess how long I will be waiting.

Cheers

 

[amanda08]

Sorry Amanda, it’s not exclusively like that it’a a fact that a significant number do make the grade. But the firm do have a significant target of recruiting ladies into the grade.
As long you don’t mind farting, swearing and manly odours you’ll be fine lol

best of luck!

You make it sound so appealing lol
I’m used to working with mainly men so hopefully will be ok with that. And I can give as good as with at least on of those three things lol
Not sure how I’d feel about being a token women hire-e though!

 

[Tom Quinne]

You make it sound so appealing lol
I’m used to working with mainly men so hopefully will be ok with that. And I can give as good as with at least on of those three things lol
Not sure how I’d feel about being a token women hire-e though!

Father of two strong minded daughter here, if you can a loop hole into a fantastic career take a good run up and smash a huge hole through it !

 

[Gallius]

You make it sound so appealing lol
I’m used to working with mainly men so hopefully will be ok with that. And I can give as good as with at least on of those three things lol
Not sure how I’d feel about being a token women hire-e though!

They won't give you the job just because you're a woman, you will need to score well in the interview.

 

[LOM]

They won't give you the job just because you're a woman, you will need to score well in the interview.

I was just going to post exactly this. There are plenty of women in the grade and there is no quota, it all comes down to the interview scores. It is true that ex forces and ex emergency services tend to score well because they have experienced many highly pressured situations and done lots of decision making but you would be amazed at some of the really excellent answers I have heard from people from other walks of life. Generally you can tell the ‘chip on shoulder’ type of ex policeman or soldier from a mile away at an interview.

 

[Leo_724677]

Hi Leo,

If you don't mind me asking, as a pool signaller how long did you have to wait to get a start and place at sig school? And did you just keep an eye on your emails to see you got a place or did the hiring manager call you?

I've been told I'm being put into a pool of signallers but it's anyone's guess how long I will be waiting.

Cheers

I started around two months after finding out I was successful at interview so it was a pretty quick turnaround all in all. Then was off to signalling school several weeks after starting as I was fortunate and got placed on a course due to a cancellation. The hiring manager was great throughout and communicated the start date etc. Then all the paperwork and arranging for a medical came through HR via email

 

[High Dyke]

I am sure this will go down like a mug full of cold sick but I have to say I have seen mixed results with ex police and ex forces signallers. They only seem to come in two varieties, brilliant folk who totally ‘get’ the job and will do anything for you or arrogant tossers with a major chip on both shoulders. You are clearly one of the good guys who gets it but there are plenty of the other type out these sadly. They do always interview well though!

No, that's a fair assessment. We've got a few of both sorts in my area. At the end of the day you get as much from the job as you put into it; and that can be said for the training. There was a guy on my signalling course, he was previously a quartermaster for the MOD and, according to him - "could list stores numbers from one - infinity". However, he was hopeless at signalling trains, became disruptive in class and ended up getting sacked after allegations of harassment in the hotel that trainees were staying at.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Sounds like a lovely chap, takes some doing get your cards !

 

[Joesgreen]

Which job is that for?

Wokingham signaller, grade 5

 

[Thebullet]

I have a couple of vacancies in the system at the moment and it is interesting to see the number of applications have shot through the roof in the last week or so. I think a lot of people must be worried about jobs with the lockdown and furlough scheme. It makes me realise how lucky we are in NR, insulated to an extent from economic pressures.

Good evening @LOM

Is it up to yourself or the company how fast someone moves through the recruitment process from posting the vacancy to actually getting into the SB

Also is there a quota to get more females and ethnic minorities into the role that the company try to promote if a candidate seems a good fit?

I know ATC has just been mentioned and that is one industry that actively promotes women in the tower or the flight deck.

 

[s1msimma]

Wokingham signaller, grade 5

I have also applied for this role, and completed all the tests. Passed the bench mark so fingers crossed

 

[Kraken]

I wonder if anyone can shed some light on the interview process for me please? I’ve been sitting at ‘Application Under Consideration for Assessment 2’ for several weeks now. That’s fine, I appreciate this is a waiting game and I’m in absolutely no rush ☺️. The bit where I’m unclear is that interviews have already taken for this post and my status has not changed.

Is it the case that you could be a ‘reserve’ interviewee? I.e. The most promising candidates are called for interview first off and if none of them make the grade or accept the job then you get the second batch in. That would be absolutely fine by me, I’d rather have an interview where I wasn’t first choice than not have an interview at all! I’m just trying to clarify where in the chain I’m sitting. Thanks in advance.

 

[TRain87]

I wonder if anyone can shed some light on the interview process for me please? I’ve been sitting at ‘Application Under Consideration for Assessment 2’ for several weeks now. That’s fine, I appreciate this is a waiting game and I’m in absolutely no rush ☺. The bit where I’m unclear is that interviews have already taken for this post and my status has not changed.

Is it the case that you could be a ‘reserve’ interviewee? I.e. The most promising candidates are called for interview first off and if none of them make the grade or accept the job then you get the second batch in. That would be absolutely fine by me, I’d rather have an interview where I wasn’t first choice than not have an interview at all! I’m just trying to clarify where in the chain I’m sitting. Thanks in advance.

If you're called to interview, along with 4 others for example, they will hire one if the 5...there won't be a reserve interview list...this is my understanding of it, and I've had 5 interviews with network rail and also been on the hiring side of the table!

 

[Kraken]

If you're called to interview, along with 4 others for example, they will hire one if the 5...there won't be a reserve interview list...this is my understanding of it, and I've had 5 interviews with network rail and also been on the hiring side of the table!

Nice, thank you very much for that. Possibly the interviews are just being staggered over a longer period of time then hopefully, that's what I'll choose to believe anyway - keep hopeful! Appreciate you taking the time.

 

[Nippy]

Totally agree about two kinds, I work with a ex copper and have worked with a ex marine both are arrogant so-in-so’s.

The Marine we nicknamed (behind isback obviously! lol) the Mad Marine, as he wasn’t happy working where we did and wanted a move to a centre closer to his home.

He said to our LOM in front of us on the ops floor every time he drove to work he had to fight the urge to drive his car into the central reservation! I kid you not!

Not long after he went LTS never to be seen again.

I’m lucky my old man was a life long railwaymen so i grow up with the job, he was very disappointed I don’t got straight onto the railway but joined the other “job” first. My womb gremlins are all interested in a career on the railway, I make no secret of the negatives to them but they must take after me in the brains department...they still want to come onboard!

I know exactly who you mean. He said the same to us at TVSC. He had the same nickname at TVSC as well.......

With regards coppers and the forces, we have found the same, some great, some utter idiots who know it all and won't be told.

 

[Allaboard78]

Unless you find out which system(s) your box works beforehand you will be told when you start. There are a few bell codes used in TCB during emergencies or degraded working which you would be expected to learn but hardly anything compared with AB

What's the difference between them? Is one a shorter course/easier? Stupid question I know but is signaller school teaching you the rule books?

 

[LOM]

Good evening @LOM

Is it up to yourself or the company how fast someone moves through the recruitment process from posting the vacancy to actually getting into the SB

Also is there a quota to get more females and ethnic minorities into the role that the company try to promote if a candidate seems a good fit?

I know ATC has just been mentioned and that is one industry that actively promotes women in the tower or the flight deck.

There is no quota system. Candidates are assessed entirely on merit based on the application questions/SHL tests and interview scores. Interview panels are supposed to be gender-balanced where possible. The only slight nod towards a quota is that any candidate who declares a disability must be interviewed unless the hiring manager can demonstrate from the candidate's application that they do not meet the essential criteria for the role. Before a job is advertised the hiring manager has to agree a recruitment plan with HR which includes the timescales for everything from the vacancy going live in the system to the signaller finishing school. These timescales are supposed to be strict but in practice there has to be a bit of float. They generally plan on a maximum of 4 months from advertising to starting signalling school.

Is it the case that you could be a ‘reserve’ interviewee? I.e. The most promising candidates are called for interview first off and if none of them make the grade or accept the job then you get the second batch in. That would be absolutely fine by me, I’d rather have an interview where I wasn’t first choice than not have an interview at all! I’m just trying to clarify where in the chain I’m sitting.

It would be exceptional to not appoint one of the candidates who are interviewed first time round. In fact once the interview shortlist (usually maximum 6, minimum 3 for one position) has been drawn up the other candidates are supposed to have their status changed to "reject before interview" with a reason code which then automatically generates a letter informing the candidate that they have been unsuccessful. I do not think you can then change their status back after that, it is final. I think you would have to readvertise the job.

What's the difference between them? Is one a shorter course/easier? Stupid question I know but is signaller school teaching you the rule books?

Both are difficult courses but they focus on different skills and systems. I suppose an analogy would be like learning to fly an aeroplane versus a helicopter. The school is designed to take you from complete novice to competent signaller. A huge part of that is teaching you to understand the meaning and applications of the rules in the book.

 

[Allaboard78]

Thanks lom, a really good way to describe it. Mich appreciated

 

[Kraken]

It would be exceptional to not appoint one of the candidates who are interviewed first time round. In fact once the interview shortlist (usually maximum 6, minimum 3 for one position) has been drawn up the other candidates are supposed to have their status changed to "reject before interview" with a reason code which then automatically generates a letter informing the candidate that they have been unsuccessful. I do not think you can then change their status back after that, it is final. I think you would have to readvertise the job.

Thanks for that - I’ll hold out a bit of hope that the invitation is ‘in the post’ in that case. It’s probably more like the ‘reject before interview’ is in the post but I guess a bit of PMA never hurts