Buses and the coronavirus

[Bletchleyite]

The start up and legislatory costs would probably prevent many from entering the coach holiday industry in any great volume. Following on from this pandemic would banks lend the money in what now lenders may consider a risky industry? A brand new touring coach with WiFi and other mod cons now costs around £250k.

With major global pandemics occuring around once every 100 years, it's hardly high risk. And why buy a new coach when there'll be a load of used ones knocking about cheap after multiple failures?

 

[Llandudno]

Unfortunately cheap and coaches don’t go together, there are coach dealerships all over the UK with showrooms full of nearly new coaches but they still don’t reduce them to sell though!

The other issue customers demand (quite rightly) is high quality vehicles with WiFi, Air conditioning, low emissions and ever improving disabled access. All this comes with and still will come with in the near future is a huge price tag.

 

[Meerkat]

With major global pandemics occuring around once every 100 years, it's hardly high risk. And why buy a new coach when there'll be a load of used ones knocking about cheap after multiple failures?

You don’t think this is a new normal? With the world opening up and connecting won’t this just keep happening?
which reminds me - what happened to swine flu here? Did it die out in summer, burn through with no huge drama, or what?

 

[philthetube]

all the assets would be in the hands of the administrators, loads of big victorian hotels which are not much use for anything else and loads of coaches, a business ready to go.

Cash rich people will be looking for things to invest in.

 

[Mikey C]

Unfortunately cheap and coaches don’t go together, there are coach dealerships all over the UK with showrooms full of nearly new coaches but they still don’t reduce them to sell though!

The other issue customers demand (quite rightly) is high quality vehicles with WiFi, Air conditioning, low emissions and ever improving disabled access. All this comes with and still will come with in the near future is a huge price tag.

Those dealerships will be desperate for ANY business too. They can't afford to have millions invested in coaches sitting in a yard

 

[Jamesrob637]

All buses I have seen in my area on my exercise have had three maximum on board (Greater Manchester Stagecoach with one or two private companies)

 

[alex397]

Once things return to some sort of normal, I do worry about what will happen to the bus network, particularly in provincial areas outside of the main cities.

There has been lots of warnings to avoid public transport, further enforcing stereotypes that buses are dirty and full of germs. Of course, its good to avoid public transport at this moment, but when it is safer to travel, it will be in many people's mind about the spread of germs in public transport.
Most people who have no choice but to use buses will continue to do so. But this lockdown may have pushed some to finally get themselves a car. Many elderly and vulnerable people may have a second thought about getting the bus into town, in case they catch something. And, many businesses may have seen the benefits of home working, meaning less people commuting. One thing I can't see changing massively though is the amount of school children using the bus to school (although with more home working parents, there could be more lifts to school for pupils).
Less passengers will inevitably mean a drop in some frequencies, making the bus even less attractive. In Kent, pre-lockdown there were already routes where I am often the only passenger, or amongst a small handful of others - these routes are often contract routes so are safe in the short term, but councils may not want to justify continuing to pay for these routes. Commercial routes (a few of which are actually infrequent rural routes) may not return to their previous frequencies. Marginal routes may become loss-making.

These are all 'ifs' and 'buts', and i'm no expert, but I can't imagine passenger levels returning to how they were pre-lockdown.

 

[Llandudno]

Once things return to some sort of normal, I do worry about what will happen to the bus network, particularly in provincial areas outside of the main cities.

There has been lots of warnings to avoid public transport, further enforcing stereotypes that buses are dirty and full of germs. Of course, its good to avoid public transport at this moment, but when it is safer to travel, it will be in many people's mind about the spread of germs in public transport.
Most people who have no choice but to use buses will continue to do so. But this lockdown may have pushed some to finally get themselves a car. Many elderly and vulnerable people may have a second thought about getting the bus into town, in case they catch something. And, many businesses may have seen the benefits of home working, meaning less people commuting. One thing I can't see changing massively though is the amount of school children using the bus to school (although with more home working parents, there could be more lifts to school for pupils).
Less passengers will inevitably mean a drop in some frequencies, making the bus even less attractive. In Kent, there are already routes where I can often be the only passenger, or amongst a small handful of others - these routes are often contract routes so are safe in the short term, but councils may not want to justify continuing to pay for these routes. Commercial routes (a few of which are actually infrequent rural routes) may not return to their previous frequencies. Marginal routes may become loss-making.

These are all 'ifs' and 'buts', and i'm no expert, but I can't imagine passenger levels returning to how they were pre-lockdown.

Yes I agree with your sentiments!

It is possible that the scenario you have presented could actually lead to bus franchising, as it maybe the only way some semblance of a bus network could be provided in certain medium sized towns and rural areas in the future.

Pre Covid 19, the main bus operators were very much against franchising, but they may have to change their views...?

 

[david1212]

I saw the attached photo on another site. If for now on a contract or school operation where the operator is being paid regardless of the number of passengers fine but thinking ahead if individual bookings then not viable.

Here of 22 seats just 6 to be used. Scale that up to a tri-axle 65 seater and just 18 seats. Even if some couples who live together maybe just under 30. If all couples at most a few more to still maintain distancing.

 

[Bantamzen]

I saw the attached photo on another site. If for now on a contract or school operation where the operator is being paid regardless of the number of passengers fine but thinking ahead if individual bookings then not viable.

Here of 22 seats just 6 to be used. Scale that up to a tri-axle 65 seater and just 18 seats. Even if some couples who live together maybe just under 30. If all couples at most a few more to still maintain distancing.

View attachment 77480

That's even dafter than blocking out middle seats on an aircraft.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's presumably complying to the 2m thing.

The thing that urgently needs investigating as far as transport goes is do masks provide enough mitigation to reduce that, and how different types of mask affect that.

 

[Bantamzen]

It's presumably complying to the 2m thing.

The thing that urgently needs investigating as far as transport goes is do masks provide enough mitigation to reduce that, and how different types of mask affect that.

Look at the picture again, do those distances actually look like 2 metres? And moreover, how do you reach the seats without passing within inches of people? This is where the 2m guidance (as mandated by the government) is taken to the extreme, & then beyond. And then there is the economics of it, as with aircraft it isn't sustainable.

As for masks, that's probably better discussed on the thread about them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Look at the picture again, do those distances actually look like 2 metres?

Yes. A bus is about 2-2.5m wide, and they've offset the rows.

And moreover, how do you reach the seats without passing within inches of people? This is where the 2m guidance (as mandated by the government) is taken to the extreme, & then beyond.

You don't, but a quick pass isn't really seen as an issue.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

One thing I could also see happening when coming back to normal, is the requirement of all new buses in the UK to be dual doored. I am thinking that way so that just in case another global pandemic happens again (hopefully it won't of course!), middle-door bus boarding can be used across the whole country and not just currently in London.

 

[PG]

One thing I could also see happening when coming back to normal, is the requirement of all new buses in the UK to be dual doored. I am thinking that way so that just in case another global pandemic happens again (hopefully it won't of course!), middle-door bus boarding can be used across the whole country and not just currently in London.

I follow your thinking though I doubt it will happen without legislation being passed which is likely to take a while to go through before it became law.

Thus much like the move to low floors we are looking very much at the longer term before this would have much impact on the streets should it ever be required in the kind of circumstances that you describe.

 

[GusB]

One thing I could also see happening when coming back to normal, is the requirement of all new buses in the UK to be dual doored. I am thinking that way so that just in case another global pandemic happens again (hopefully it won't of course!), middle-door bus boarding can be used across the whole country and not just currently in London.

I'm not convinced that is a reasonable suggestion. A second door on every new vehicle would add considerable expense, and reduce seating capacity. Why centre-door boarding - is it to protect the driver? If this is your reasoning then it would be much better to ensure that the cab is better isolated from the rest of the bus. We managed it with the old half-cabs, so it's hardly rocket science. What you seem to be advocating is that the front door be locked out of use, and everyone use the centre one, in which case there's little point in having the front one in the first place!

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing I could also see happening when coming back to normal, is the requirement of all new buses in the UK to be dual doored. I am thinking that way so that just in case another global pandemic happens again (hopefully it won't of course!), middle-door bus boarding can be used across the whole country and not just currently in London.

I'd strongly support dual door because it saves several seconds per stop. But I wouldn't be making that decision based on what is basically a one-in-100-years event.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What you seem to be advocating is that the front door be locked out of use, and everyone use the centre one, in which case there's little point in having the front one in the first place!

Only in the event of a pandemic.

 

[Mikey C]

I'd strongly support dual door because it saves several seconds per stop. But I wouldn't be making that decision based on what is basically a one-in-100-years event.

In big cities yes, but in quieter towns and rural areas the middle door is unnecessary, especially on routes where most of the passengers are elderly etc, and the few seconds saving would be fairly meaningless

 

[Bletchleyite]

In big cities yes, but in quieter towns and rural areas the middle door is unnecessary, especially on routes where most of the passengers are elderly etc, and the few seconds saving would be fairly meaningless

There are basically two types of bus service in this sense. Ones that run from suburb or rural village to town centre and terminate there, usually in a bus station. At any given stop in any given direction, there is mostly either boarding or alighting, and so dual door is a waste of space and you might as well have the seats. The other type, primarily urban and certainly most London routes but also a lot of other towns with "cross town" type services like MK, has people both boarding and alighting at most stops. This type is where you can save a fairly large amount of time with dual door.

 

[Deerfold]

One thing I could also see happening when coming back to normal, is the requirement of all new buses in the UK to be dual doored. I am thinking that way so that just in case another global pandemic happens again (hopefully it won't of course!), middle-door bus boarding can be used across the whole country and not just currently in London.

That'll require the rebuilding of a lot of infrastructure.

All the bus stations in West Yorkshire for a start.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That'll require the rebuilding of a lot of infrastructure.

All the bus stations in West Yorkshire for a start.

You can always leave the rear door closed at bus stations. It's not like you're in a rush there, typically it's tip out, lock up, driver has a break, reopen and reload.

 

[Deerfold]

You can always leave the rear door closed at bus stations. It's not like you're in a rush there, typically it's tip out, lock up, driver has a break, reopen and reload.

Not all buses terminate at bus stations.

You're also going to have to re-educate passengers on how to leave the bus.


Use the middle door. But not all the time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not all buses terminate at bus stations.

The ones that don't terminate against the kerb, so you can use the second door! In a very small number of cases you may need to remove some railings.

You're also going to have to re-educate passengers on how to leave the bus.

That's really not that hard.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Not all buses terminate at bus stations.

You're also going to have to re-educate passengers on how to leave the bus.


Use the middle door. But not all the time.

I always use the middle door to get off wherever possible.

 

[Deerfold]

The ones that don't terminate against the kerb, so you can use the second door! In a very small number of cases you may need to remove some railings.

Almost all bus stations in West Yorkshire are drive in and out. If you get off at a middle door you're in the path of another bus.

 

[Deerfold]

I always use the middle door to get off wherever possible.

Would you be confused if it wasn't opened at some stops?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I'm not convinced that is a reasonable suggestion. A second door on every new vehicle would add considerable expense, and reduce seating capacity. Why centre-door boarding - is it to protect the driver? If this is your reasoning then it would be much better to ensure that the cab is better isolated from the rest of the bus. We managed it with the old half-cabs, so it's hardly rocket science. What you seem to be advocating is that the front door be locked out of use, and everyone use the centre one, in which case there's little point in having the front one in the first place!

If that's the case then why does every single bus in Continental Europe (With pretty much the exception of very short minibuses) have at least two doors?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Would be confused if it wasn't opened at some stops?

If it's not opened then i just get off at the front.

 

[Non Multi]

The ironic thing is nearly all ex-London dual door buses have their exit doors removed as soon as they find new owners elsewhere.