DfT to put new 390s into store

[Peter Mugridge]

According to Rail Magazine 647, all of the new Pendolino carriages - including the four completely new units - will be placed into warm store after delivery and will not be used until the new franchise starts in 2012.:roll:

OK, fairly understandable that the extra 2 cars for 31 units would be inserted during the overhauls ( which start in 2012 ) in order to keep the mileage even, but to store the four extra complete units as well is just rubbing salt into the wound isn't it?

Presumably it also pushes back the second hourly Liverpool service by 12 months?

 

[Aictos]

According to Rail Magazine 647, all of the new Pendolino carriages - including the four completely new units - will be placed into warm store after delivery and will not be used until the new franchise starts in 2012.:roll:

OK, fairly understandable that the extra 2 cars for 31 units would be inserted during the overhauls ( which start in 2012 ) in order to keep the mileage even, but to store the four extra complete units as well is just rubbing salt into the wound isn't it?

Presumably it also pushes back the second hourly Liverpool service by 12 months?

Typical micromanagement by the DfT and I thought the new government was going to cut back on that rubbish?

 

[Geezertronic]

Makes no sense whatsoever... so Virgin would only get a limited time to use them but surely to use them (and run them in) would be sensible? Where would they store 4 x 9 car units anyway?

 

[yorksrob]

Seems a stupid waste of resources to me. Anyone from HM Gmnt out there to explain themselves?

 

[route:oxford]

According to Rail Magazine 647, all of the new Pendolino carriages - including the four completely new units - will be placed into warm store after delivery and will not be used until the new franchise starts in 2012.:roll:

Maybe they're keeping them "as new" for a special event that's happening in 2012 somewhere on the West Coast Route...

HMQ is celebrating her Diamond Jubilee that year, anyone else aware of a major event that year?

 

[CarterUSM]

Maybe they're keeping them "as new" for a special event that's happening in 2012 somewhere on the West Coast Route...

HMQ is celebrating her Diamond Jubilee that year, anyone else aware of a major event that year?

The olympics?

 

[ukrob]

This was always the plan - although one new unit was to enter service as soon as it was ready (originally stated as Q3 this year) as a replacement for the Grayrigg unit.

 

[Pumbaa]

AFAIAA this was always the idea - may be changed at short notice in the dying months of the franchise though if it doesn't change hands; VT made sure they built that it in to the agreement. Besides the infrastructure work probably wouldn't be completed by then anyway!

The above clause is also why VT boasted Dec 2011 for introduction of Liv 2tph; the paths are there already, just need the stock. They should know by then if they have held onto WC.

 

[PhilipW]

1) Rail magazine 647 is not published until next Wednesday. How come you have this story now. As the information is not in the public domain, are you sure it's true.

2) The 4 extra units are there so that Virgin will have the same number of daily trains in use while other trains are taken out of service to have the additional two carriages fitted in. So the four do not truly become "extra" trains until all the 31 trains are all fitted with their extra carriages.

 

[ukrob]

Subscribers often receive magazines before their publication date.

And it has been in the public domain since the ITT in 2008. It is a rehash of an old story.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

1) Rail magazine 647 is not published until next Wednesday. How come you have this story now. As the information is not in the public domain, are you sure it's true.

I'm on a postal subscription so got mine today.

Re-hash of an existing story or not, it's on the front cover and all over pages 6 and 7 inside.

 

[O L Leigh]

The olympics?

Cool!! Cl390's vice Cl317's on slow Stratfords.

Can't wait.

O L Leigh

 

[oliverj8]

Subscribers often receive magazines before their publication date.

And it has been in the public domain since the ITT in 2008. It is a rehash of an old story.

I get mine every other Saturday, I got 647 yesterday

Back on the subject, I think it is stupid that they are being stored, LM and other TOCs put their new units in service as soon as they had done the tests.

 

[ukrob]

I get mine every other Saturday, I got 647 yesterday

Back on the subject, I think it is stupid that they are being stored, LM and other TOCs put their new units in service as soon as they had done the tests.

Vastly different to inserting carriages into existing sets.

It is a complete non-story for the reasons myself and PhilipW have stated.

 

[swt_passenger]

AFAICS the whole procedure for the introduction of these trains was designed by DfT as retaliation against Virgin's proposals. If you go back a while, Virgin WCT basically demanded both a franchise extension, and an extra subsidy to cover their costs of having the Pendolino fleet lengthened.

The DfT therefore did everything possible to ensure that the new units would not benefit the current franchise - and I think they hoped another TOC would win the introduction contract.

Presumably the four completely new trains will be subtly different as well - will they arrive in general purpose silver livery? Will the word Virgin appear on the internal details at all?

 

[rail-britain]

According to Rail Magazine 647, all of the new Pendolino carriages - including the four completely new units - will be placed into warm store after delivery and will not be used until the new franchise starts in 2012

OK, fairly understandable that the extra 2 cars for 31 units would be inserted during the overhauls ( which start in 2012 ) in order to keep the mileage even, but to store the four extra complete units as well is just rubbing salt into the wound isn't it?

That was always the plan
Virgin Trains and DfT could not agree over terms for their use during the current franchise
I had hoped the extra carriages would be inserted, when they were all available, but on reading the details several months ago it was clear that was not the case

 

[oliverj8]

Presumably the four completely new trains will be subtly different as well - will they arrive in general purpose silver livery? Will the word Virgin appear on the internal details at all?

Nope, Rail 646 has a picture of one where construction is nearly complete in the Virgin livery although without the stripped doors.

 

[Crossforth]

It's a shame that they will be leaving 4 Pendos in store when as stated in other threads, overcrowding is bad with other TOCs

 

[jon0844]

anyone else aware of a major event that year?

England winning Euro 2012?

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

Nah the Monster Raving Loony party taking office. Oh silly me, they are in office.

 

[asylumxl]

Nah the Monster Raving Loony party taking office. Oh silly me, they are in office.

I agree for once

 

[tbtc]

It's a shame that they will be leaving 4 Pendos in store when as stated in other threads, overcrowding is bad with other TOCs

True, but Virgin getting additional coaches/ trains wouldn't really help other TOCs, since nothing would be cascaded to them and I can't see the additional Liverpool service making much difference to any other TOC (possibly taking some passengers from the London Midland Birmingham - Liverpool service)

I take your point about general overcrowding, but I can't think of who else could really use them in the meantime

 

[Crossforth]

True, but Virgin getting additional coaches/ trains wouldn't really help other TOCs, since nothing would be cascaded to them and I can't see the additional Liverpool service making much difference to any other TOC (possibly taking some passengers from the London Midland Birmingham - Liverpool service)

I take your point about general overcrowding, but I can't think of who else could really use them in the meantime

You could possibly put the pendos on the Birmingham - Glasgow route and move some Voyagers to XC but if it would only be in the short term, I spose there is no point

 

[rail-britain]

Actually, that is a good point about 2012
There could well be a fair increase in leisure passenger numbers to/from London
However would the new franchise already be in place for May 2012?
Equally, I can see political spin from this "new trains and services for the Olympics along the WCML", woo all four of them!

 

[route:oxford]

Equally, I can see political spin from this "new trains and services for the Olympics along the WCML", woo all four of them!

Four sets, on various diagrams. That could be an extra 10,000 "seats" per day.

The 5 "spare" 180s and "Pretendalino" on other routes add more. As do the MkIII stock that is in course of being power-doored for Chiltern.

The railways are going to be the only comfortable way for domestic guests to visit the Olympics, hopefully we'll be ready for them.

 

[Geezertronic]

Are the 4 new Pendos going to be delivered as 9 car sets or are they going to have the 2 extra cars fitted prior to when they eventually are used? The DfT document would lead me to believe that they were to be built as 9 car sets then have an additional 2 cars retro-fitted?

Also, does anyone know where the extended Pendos will be used? I don't know if it is me or not but the EBW services during the peaks seem to be getting busier and busier... although I use the 1843 EUS-CRE and they appear to be advertising Milton Keynes as a proper stop (not pickup only) on this service and loads of people got off at the Keynes...

 

[rail-britain]

The four new units will be 11 car
The additional cars will be inserted for March 2012
The shorter trains will be used on Preston, Carlisle, Glasgow services

 

[RobShipway]

The reason if the article in Rail 647 is read in full, is that no instruction after commissioning the four extra pendolinos has been given so it is thought that they will be going into store. But let's think about this for a moment, if that is the case why have they painted the trains in Virgin colours or is it that Virgin are expected to have an extension to their Franchise?

 

[daikilo]

The reason if the article in Rail 647 is read in full, is that no instruction after commissioning the four extra pendolinos has been given so it is thought that they will be going into store. But let's think about this for a moment, if that is the case why have they painted the trains in Virgin colours or is it that Virgin are expected to have an extension to their Franchise?

Some very interesting speculated outcomes and decision processes, if they come true. Could lead to on-going ops challenges and opportunities.

 

[The Planner]

Really cant see Branston Pickles lot getting it after 2012.