New TfL "s" stock

[bengley]

Would it not be possible to have the driver open all the doors at inner-London stations, but on the Met Uxbridge/Amersham lines have them passenger-opened?

This is a good idea. North of Harrow, have the doors passenger operated.

 

[jon0844]

Good idea, except how does the passenger know when they have to operate the door? We're back to the delay as they slowly realise.

You'll notice that people on the Central line never press the button (well, maybe some do - but 95% don't as they know the deal) so what happens when the door doesn't open? I'd guess most people will think the doors haven't been opened by the driver, and won't try on their own. Next thing, the train moves off and they assume the driver failed to stop (modern trains won't do the hustle alarm if they weren't opened).

I realise that if there are other signs, like low-level door lights, a 'bell' or illuminated buttons then it is different - but generally speaking, it should be always or never.

 

[Dstock7080]

Right then folks, a few points. How I have yet to post on an 'S' Stock topic baffles me.

Also, a few questions if I may. Firstly, with the new stock being so "hi-tech" are there are plans to modernise the stations they will be used on? For instance, are there any plans to install Platform-Edge Doors anywhere (on the network as a whole actually)? And what will become of the C&L bay platform? Will it become a dud? One that just sits there, out of use? My last question is that are the 'S' Stock actually derived from the modern Electrostar design? I know that they are made by the same company, but I never realised just how similar they are in appearance to the 378s. Or is it just me...?

If there was such a "directive", then (unless something has changed during the last few months) the Northern Line Charing Cross branch would be in breach of it already. '1995' stock units use Selective-Door Opening at Charing Cross, and possibly others (I can't remember).

Lastly, just to say, I honestly can't wait to use the 'S' Stock. Can anyone clarify when each line can expect its roll-out please?

Some stations are having/had work done already:-
Baker Street pfm1/2 already lengthened,
Aldgate (all) closed at present for buffer-stop work. They will not get PEDs.

Chalfont bay will currently be unused, yes.

There is quite a difference to the Bombardier products, 377s (ElectroStar) have plug-doors, 378s (CapitalStar) have internal sliding (hence DOO camera problems!) and S Stock (Movia) have external sliding.

Selective door opening will have to be used, mainly for the S7s.

The Metropolitan Line will see the 1st S Stock in service, hoped for in May.
With 58 trains to come, at 1 every 2weeks (max) , this will see us into 2012.
Then the 53 S7s for Circle - H&C. Then 80 S7s for District (if they come).

 

[Mojo]

The only time I've used a 377 in 2010 thus far, the doors were operated - or not, because the system didn't work properly! - by the guard. This is the first I've heard of any GPS-opening in the UK.

I didn't think on the 377s guards had the ability to open the doors; I'm sure that on the panels in the train there is just a close button although I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong, it's a long time since they've used them.

I know there is some GPS element for SDO and also for checking the train is in the correct place, but if this auto-open using GPS does actually exist, I'd be surprised given the unreliability and inaccuracy of GPS.

 

[bengley]

Some stations are having/had work done already:-
Baker Street pfm1/2 already lengthened,
Aldgate (all) closed at present for buffer-stop work. They will not get PEDs.

Chalfont bay will currently be unused, yes.

There is quite a difference to the Bombardier products, 377s (ElectroStar) have plug-doors, 378s (CapitalStar) have internal sliding (hence DOO camera problems!) and S Stock (Movia) have external sliding.

Selective door opening will have to be used, mainly for the S7s.

The Metropolitan Line will see the 1st S Stock in service, hoped for in May.
With 58 trains to come, at 1 every 2weeks (max) , this will see us into 2012.
Then the 53 S7s for Circle - H&C. Then 80 S7s for District (if they come).

It's very optimistic to get the first one on passenger service in may! That's 2 months.

 

[Pumbaa]

I didn't think on the 377s guards had the ability to open the doors; I'm sure that on the panels in the train there is just a close button although I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong, it's a long time since they've used them.

I know there is some GPS element for SDO and also for checking the train is in the correct place, but if this auto-open using GPS does actually exist, I'd be surprised given the unreliability and inaccuracy of GPS.

They don't - although once the doors are released, there is an option on the data input set next to the display unit for "Force open/force close", although I've never seen this used.

In response to earlier posts, I am pretty sure that it is opened by GPS, no driver action required. If you watch trains pull into P15 at Clapham and stand by the stop board, you can clearly see that as the train stops and DRA activated, the drivers takes his hands away and the doors are released on the side panel, and the indicator flashes accordingly.

 

[Mojo]

I've had it confirmed by a Southern driver that the doors are not opened by GPS, but released manually by the driver (as I suspected). All GPS does is verify that the location is correct and deals with SDO issues.

 

[Pumbaa]

Fair do's - I'll have to watch more closely next time!

 

[Chilterns Dan]

Some stations are having/had work done already:-
Baker Street pfm1/2 already lengthened,
Aldgate (all) closed at present for buffer-stop work. They will not get PEDs.

Chalfont bay will currently be unused, yes.

There is quite a difference to the Bombardier products, 377s (ElectroStar) have plug-doors, 378s (CapitalStar) have internal sliding (hence DOO camera problems!) and S Stock (Movia) have external sliding.

Selective door opening will have to be used, mainly for the S7s.

The Metropolitan Line will see the 1st S Stock in service, hoped for in May.
With 58 trains to come, at 1 every 2weeks (max) , this will see us into 2012.
Then the 53 S7s for Circle - H&C. Then 80 S7s for District (if they come).

Thanks for the news on when to expect the new trains. I'm looking forward to them coming into service although presumably we won't see an increase in speed / service frequency until all are in service?

Will be interested to see how the ride compares. The current stock can be exceedingly bouncy - on the fast lines especially. I've always wondered if this is due to 1960s suspension or the line. I'm hoping it's the trains and that the new stock will bring much smoother running.

I understand that the new stock is somewhat longer than the existing stock. With selective door opening or platform extensions be needed at other stations? I know we have platform length issues at Rickmansworth with Chiltern trains at the moment.

 

[Dstock7080]

Thanks for the news on when to expect the new trains. I'm looking forward to them coming into service although presumably we won't see an increase in speed / service frequency until all are in service?

Will be interested to see how the ride compares. The current stock can be exceedingly bouncy - on the fast lines especially. I've always wondered if this is due to 1960s suspension or the line. I'm hoping it's the trains and that the new stock will bring much smoother running.

I understand that the new stock is somewhat longer than the existing stock. With selective door opening or platform extensions be needed at other stations? I know we have platform length issues at Rickmansworth with Chiltern trains at the moment.

Exactly, speed/service increase not until most/all delivered.
The traction power supplies will be increased to 750v to help.

The ride should be better, the tracks are being renewed with flat-bottomed rails etc. The A Stock is very bouncy at speed!

The S Stock is longer than existing trains. (quite a bit compared with C Stock!):
A Stock 8-car: 131.47m
S8 Stock: 133.68m = +2.21m (10.04')

S7 Stock: 117.45m
D Stock 6-car: 110.90m = -6.55m (21.48')
C stock 6-car: 94.36m = -23.09m (75.75')


Selective door opening shouldn't be needed on the Metropolitan Line but definitely at certain stations on the Circle and District Lines.

 

[Daniel]

With selective door opening or platform extensions be needed at other stations? I know we have platform length issues at Rickmansworth with Chiltern trains at the moment.

It will be platform extensions - see Baker Street platform 4 or the closure of Aldgate this week

 

[anonymous0101]

Isn't the speedometer only calibrated up to 60 mph? A shot of the speedo would have been good.

Ok i found this little gem on youtube folks :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BDf-rJWfAY&feature=related

The speedometer can be seen clearly at around 3m 30s

 

[Daniel]

And again, the sticks are restricted but not physically limited to 50mph. Drivers exceed this, as the video shows, and they're taking it at their own risk to allow themselves to be filmed...

 

[Dstock7080]

Ok i found this little gem on youtube folks :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BDf-rJWfAY&feature=related

The speedometer can be seen clearly at around 3m 30s

I have looked at this video and have driven A Stock on this section, all i can say is that i doubt the speedo is showing the correct speed.

Finchley Road to Harrow NB is a long slow climb in gradient, you would be lucky to get 60.
70+ could only be found from Amersham to Moor Park SB.

 

[bengley]

I have looked at this video and have driven A Stock on this section, all i can say is that i doubt the speedo is showing the correct speed.

Finchley Road to Harrow NB is a long slow climb in gradient, you would be lucky to get 60.
70+ could only be found from Amersham to Moor Park SB.

Plus it doesn't even look like it's going 70.

 

[Voyager 2093]

Plus it doesn't even look like it's going 70.

I though that too but maybe because the person filming has zoomed in with their camera. I have a video of an A 60 Stock doing 60mph which I will upload very soon to youtube. Ill inform you lot when I do

 

[Dstock7080]

It's very optimistic to get the first one on passenger service in may! That's 2 months.

Further to my previous post, it does now look as though the "behind the scenes date" of 'May' has been pushed back.

 

[subway156]

Actually aircon on a metro system is rather a waste of cash given that doors open and close on a average of 2 minutes generally [except on Met fasts] so whatever advantage aircon has in nullified

Have you ever ridden on an MTA unit with A/C? It's down right chilly, open doors or not. It's numbing cold. But some of those platforms feel like you're standing in a furnace and when the train rolls in, it's worth the cold air.

 

[A60K]

Exactly the same in Barcelona - it doesn't sound like LMS6202 has experience of metro trains with aircon, as if he did he would have known that it does work.

 

[kennethw]

any definite news of when the s stock will be replacing the c stock?

 

[MCR247]

After the A Stock orders are done

 

[Voyager 2093]

any definite news of when the s stock will be replacing the c stock?

From 2013 onwards apparently. The D Stock will be last to be replaced.

 

[Dstock7080]

The 2nd S Stock has now arrived in London.

 

[Chilterns Dan]

The 2nd S Stock has now arrived in London.

Good news - but any update on when we might start to see them in normal service?

 

[A60K]

The first in possibly August, September or October, depends how testing goes.

 

[Dstock7080]

The new Metropolitan WTT from 23 May has 2 booked "RR" = 'runs-as-required' workings for S Stock testing both in and out of passenger service.
Obviously when the trains are ready to be provided for these workings.

 

[Voyager 2093]

I saw an S Stock at Neasden Depot on Thursday.

 

[Gavelex]

I think many people's opinion on the S stock will be rather limited on it, as it's not been in service.

I believe the idea of having the TBC on the left is that it is fixed, so you can sit or stand whilst using it. Although, that said, with the A stock's position you could sit or stand..

Not entirely.. The TBC is on the left because the stock will spend most of it's life in ATO, so won't be needed outside depots and sidings... better to have it slightly out of the way.

Although, anyone saying it should be on the right because people are right handed - are you unable to do simple "forward" and "backwards" movements with your left hand? I would personally prefer to use my right hand to use cab radio, DVA announcements, etc...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

According to TfL's response to its consultation many Chesham residents actually drive to Amersham to pick up the main service into town. If this is the case then it sounds as if direct services to and from town would be well used. This doesn't help Amersham commuters, however Amersham does benefit from the greatest number of Chiltern services, include some fast services, of all the Amersham branch stations.

But less people would be at Amersham because there not driving from Chesham... So it should all work out in the end, or people will give up complaining - one or the other always happens

 

[Voyager 2093]

http://circleoflondon.blogspot.com/2010/05/rare-s-stock-moment.html - S Stock cars had to separated because Neasden currently does not have the facilities.

 

[Retropractor]

My son was on duty, yesterday, on the Met line, and says he saw one of the new 'S' stock, out on driver training, between Northwood and Pinner.