Gatwick Express (Random Idea)

[SouthWalesSam]

A long thought of mine whilst at work with GTR has been that the Dual Voltage Gatwick Express stock would be better placed to run two services, one express Brighton - Gatwick - Victoria as it is now, but another because of the huge twinning with Heathrow and the ache it is to get between the two (National express or through London) would be to utilise the Dual Voltage of the 387's and run a Gatwick - Clapham - Kensington Olympia - Ealing Broadway - Heathrow Service, thus unlocking a direct service to Heathrow from Gatwick for changing passengers on flights also opening a link from Clapham Junction to the GWML and Heathrow so you don't have to either go via London or change at Staines.

This of course is a random idea inspired by the dual voltage of the 387's and new Gatwick Airport re-development with no basis in any facts, just a good idea in my opinion!

 

[traji00]

One drawback of course is that the service would need to switch from the Fast-Slow lines at Balham on the flat (and vice versa) Since Clapham Jn platforms for the WLL is on the “slow lines”. (Hence why Southern Milton Keynes trains are stoppers from Croydon - Clapham)

Other than that, a very good idea.
Although I’d have the WLL stop at Shepherds Bush rather than Kensington Olympia to allow a better draw of passengers.

 

[Nippy]

Another drawback is the lack of wires between Acton Wells and Acton East.

 

[JonathanH]

A further drawback is that demand for public transport between Gatwick and Heathrow is largely non existent and satisfied by a small number of coaches working routes that serve both Heathrow and Gatwick as part of a longer journey.

Indeed, even if the service the OP envisaged could be pathed in between lots of other services, it would still be quicker to make the journey between Gatwick and Heathrow by changing trains - eg Victoria & Hammersmith, Clapham Junction, West Brompton & Earls Court or eventually at Farringdon.

It certainly wouldn't happen just because some 387s happen to be 'spare'

Plenty of threads about this.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/heathrow-to-gatwick.156131/

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/my-idea-for-a-direct-heathrow-gatwick-rail-service.154133/

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-link-services-including-gatwick-link.185385/

 

[Bald Rick]

A further drawback is that demand for public transport between Gatwick and Heathrow is largely non existent and satisfied by a small number of coaches working routes that serve both Heathrow and Gatwick as part of a longer journey.

Indeed, a significant majority of the few people making the journey from Heathrow to Gatwick are airline staff rather than passengers, and one assumes these are working for the airlines that have bases at both airports, most significantly BA and Virgin. Seeing as the former is downsizing its Gatwick operation significantly (and threatening to pull out), whilst the latter has announced it is definitely pulling out of Gatwick, it would seem that the market between the two will shrink considerably.

 

[popeter45]

bit of a unneeded idea now but would have been nice to have a airside connection using same platform separation eurostar uses
dedicated airside platforms at both heathrow and gatwick and run a non-stop service between them

 

[telstarbox]

How many passengers connect between Heathrow and Gatwick each year?

 

[Bald Rick]

How many passengers connect between Heathrow and Gatwick each year?

Essentially zero.

 

[JonathanH]

I think in the current circumstances, another way to get round the perceived need for a Heathrow to Gatwick link would be to close Gatwick Airport. Doing so would solve almost every problem apart from the economy of Crawley.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think in the current circumstances, another way to get round the perceived need for a Heathrow to Gatwick link would be to close Gatwick Airport. Doing so would solve almost every problem apart from the economy of Crawley.

If you were going to close a London airport, now the Luton people mover is getting built I suspect Stansted would be the one. I doubt any of them will close, however, they will just operate at lower capacity than they did.

 

[Ianno87]

If you were going to close a London airport, now the Luton people mover is getting built I suspect Stansted would be the one. I doubt any of them will close, however, they will just operate at lower capacity than they did.

Presumably operating costs can be saved by 'switching off' terminals or parts of terminals (e.g one of the 3 Stansted piers)

 

[D365]

If you were going to close a London airport, now the Luton people mover is getting built I suspect Stansted would be the one. I doubt any of them will close, however, they will just operate at lower capacity than they did.

Stansted is the best placed hub for Cambridgeshire and the east of England. Public transport links to Luton are very much lacking.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stansted is the best placed hub for Cambridgeshire and the east of England. Public transport links to Luton are very much lacking.

This will no longer be the case when the people mover opens, it can't be long now.

 

[D365]

This will no longer be the case when the people mover opens, it can't be long now.

It’s not going to help with links to Cambridgeshire and Essex is it? You can’t easily go east on public transport from Luton as far as I am aware.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s not going to help with links to Cambridgeshire and Essex is it? You can’t easily go east on public transport from Luton as far as I am aware.

NatEx do it I believe. As Luton grows so will probably the demand for that.

 

[Ianno87]

It’s not going to help with links to Cambridgeshire and Essex is it? You can’t easily go east on public transport from Luton as far as I am aware.

NatEx do it I believe. As Luton grows so will probably the demand for that.

National Express connect Luton and Cambridge (and on to Norwich) every couple of hours or so, but even so Luton is not a "natural" airport for Cambridgeshire.

 

[Bald Rick]

Stansted is the best placed hub for Cambridgeshire and the east of England. Public transport links to Luton are very much lacking.

They’re better than Stansted. 8 trains an hour to London off peak (when the EMR electric timetable starts, 7 now), more in the peak, most of which carry on to Surrey / Sussex / Kent. 5 trains an hour north. Great local bus network. Coaches to various destinations.

Stansted has 4 trains an hour to London, 1 to Birmingham via Cambridge, and 1 to Norwich via Cambridge. A similar range of coaches, and not much of a locals bus Network.

In terms of destinations I suspect Luton wins, and it certainly does on frequency (and journey time) to the main market, London.

It’s not going to help with links to Cambridgeshire and Essex is it? You can’t easily go east on public transport from Luton as far as I am aware.

You can’t easily go east from Stansted, unless you want Chelmsford on the bus or Norwich on the train. Or drive, which is what most people do from that direction.

This will no longer be the case when the people mover opens, it can't be long now.

Another year.

 

[Aictos]

National Express connect Luton and Cambridge (and on to Norwich) every couple of hours or so, but even so Luton is not a "natural" airport for Cambridgeshire.

National Express also link Luton with Birmingham too, there's the Greenline coach to London Victoria plus local buses to Dunstable, Leagrave, Leighton Buzzard, Stevenage, Hitchin and Potters Bar plus the Stagecoach 99 to Milton Keynes.

In short, there's far more connections available at Luton then Stansted currently offer.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Another drawback is the lack of wires between Acton Wells and Acton East.

. . . and between Mitre Bridge and Acton Wells.

There's probably far more demand for a direct service to Heathrow from Clapham Junction and its catchment area than from Gatwick. If access to the Heathrow link had not already been fully allocated, a service from Clapham Junction might have been worth serious thought.

 

[JonathanH]

. . . and between Mitre Bridge and Acton Wells.

There's probably far more demand for a direct service to Heathrow from Clapham Junction and its catchment area than from Gatwick. If access to the Heathrow link had not already been fully allocated, a service from Clapham Junction might have been worth serious thought.

It did have serious thought but there are too many level crossings west of Clapham Junction towards Staines permit more trains to run.

 

[Horizon22]

I think it would be a rather slow journey too for anyone that has trundled along the West London Line before. Pathing to Heathrow might become an issue too as Crossrail/Elizabeth line services start to ramp up.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think it would be a rather slow journey too for anyone that has trundled along the West London Line before. Pathing to Heathrow might become an issue too as Crossrail/Elizabeth line services start to ramp up.

Pathing to Heathrow is definitely an issue. Post Elizabeth line, there’s none spare.

 

[MarkyT]

The possible withdrawal from Gatwick by Virgin and particularly BA would seem to reduce the potential need for inter-airport transfers even further. I don't think Gatwick is facing an existential crisis, but it could become dominated more by myriad overseas and budget airlines. Whether or not a separately branded Express rail service survives, Gatwick will remain the best rail-connected airport in the UK.

 

[swt_passenger]

No one has ever shown a real proven demand for a Gatwick - Heathrow service anyway, every time this suggestion has been made, and it’s been made fairly often.

Interchange between Thameslink and Crossrail at Farringdon will potentially be faster as well.

 

[Starmill]

Isn't Stansted the cheapest proposition for the airlines? It seems in little danger of closure while it's attractive to the bargain basement market. Heathrow can still offer much that Gatwick cannot, as well as the 'prestige' it's associated with.

This idea has even been proposed as part of a maglev once I think. That would probably actually work by essentially making it one Airport, but actually building it would be completely crazy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't Stansted the cheapest proposition for the airlines? It seems in little danger of closure while it's attractive to the bargain basement market. Heathrow can still offer much that Gatwick cannot, as well as the 'prestige' it's associated with.

I used to avoid Ee'throw like the plague. But now, T4 aside, it's really nice. So that will no doubt tip the balance.

The problem with Gatwick is that the baggage retrieval is horribly slow, and you walk 100 miles across the "A380 bridge" to even get there! It's a kludge of bolted-on bits, whereas Heathrow proves what you can do if you just knock it down and start again.

 

[Bald Rick]

Isn't Stansted the cheapest proposition for the airlines? It seems in little danger of closure while it's attractive to the bargain basement market. Heathrow can still offer much that Gatwick cannot, as well as the 'prestige' it's associated with.

I’m reasonably sure that Luton has lower fees than Stansted generally, but Ryanair will have done a good deal (hence the large amount of General Aviation).

I used to avoid Ee'throw like the plague. But now, T4 aside, it's really nice. So that will no doubt tip the balance.

The problem with Gatwick is that the baggage retrieval is horribly slow, and you walk 100 miles across the "A380 bridge" to even get there! It's a kludge of bolted-on bits, whereas Heathrow proves what you can do if you just knock it down and start again.

You only have to go over that bridge if you are in/fortunate enough to use one of the 20 or so gates at North Terminal it services. You don’t for the other 60 odd gates at the airport.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

It did have serious thought but there are too many level crossings west of Clapham Junction towards Staines permit more trains to run.

The route in question is the West London Line to Mitre Junction and from there the South West Lines to Acton Wells Junction.

 

[JonathanH]

The route in question is the West London Line to Mitre Junction and from there the South West Lines to Acton Wells Junction.

Yes, I am aware of that but it isn't a particularly natural way of getting from Clapham Junction to Heathrow - it is virtually walking pace from Shepherds Bush to Acton Main Line. I was making the point that the idea of linking Clapham Junction and Heathrow via a more natural route had serious thought and didn't get very far.

 

[Bald Rick]

I was making the point that the idea of linking Clapham Junction and Heathrow via a more natural route had serious thought and didn't get very far.

Until 8 weeks ago it was still being given serious consideration. All the southern link to Heathrow proposals that involve heavy rail include a service from Waterloo.