GBRF confirms conversion of Class 56s to Class 69s

[43096]

How many unmolested class 56s will be left if all those at Marcroft are converted, is it right only 006 and 097 are In full pres then theres 301 and the DCR ones are there any more?

Colas fleet.

 

[31160]

Absolutely soz forgot them, I suppose the ones abroad could return eventually as well

 

[Speed43125]

To be honest, I think choosing TOPS 65 would have been better, showing the technical similarity with the 66 and using an unused number not likely to be used soon as 69 could be used for an improved class 68 etc. Not to mention it's actually like the original number, (eg 47-> 57) whereas 69 doesn't really tell you anything on what it's based on.
Also less giggles needed with 65.
Not a particularly useful comment, but I've had prefered it.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Don't think it really matters on the Class number does it nowadays, they'll be a Type 5 and as long as they get much needed traction into traffic from next year.

I just hope the conversion is less complicated and a bit more reliable than the Class 57 was.

 

[BRX]

To be honest, I think choosing TOPS 65 would have been better, showing the technical similarity with the 66 and using an unused number not likely to be used soon as 69 could be used for an improved class 68 etc. Not to mention it's actually like the original number, (eg 47-> 57) whereas 69 doesn't really tell you anything on what it's based on.
Also less giggles needed with 65.
Not a particularly useful comment, but I've had prefered it.

I agree!
How was the number 66 arrived at anyway? It would almost have made sense to be 69 as an update on the 59....

 

[USRailFan]

I agree!
How was the number 66 arrived at anyway? It would almost have made sense to be 69 as an update on the 59....

Weren't 61 and 65 planned developments of the Class 60? So I guess 66 followed on from 65, but still left room open for expanding the 60 series if needed? I've also seen it claimed somewhere that originally the 66s were meant to be Class 62 and the 67s Class 66 (back when the 67 was pretty much intended to just be a higher-speed 66 with ETH)?

 

[43096]

To be honest, I think choosing TOPS 65 would have been better, showing the technical similarity with the 66 and using an unused number not likely to be used soon as 69 could be used for an improved class 68 etc. Not to mention it's actually like the original number, (eg 47-> 57) whereas 69 doesn't really tell you anything on what it's based on.
Also less giggles needed with 65.
Not a particularly useful comment, but I've had prefered it.

The 65xxx series is not available - there are a lot of EMU vehicles in that number range.

 

[dubscottie]

Remember that a fair chunk of the 6xxxx number sequence is taken up by various EMU vehicles.

Its unlikely we will see a class 61-65 anytime soon.

 

[hwl]

Weren't 61 and 65 planned developments of the Class 60? So I guess 66 followed on from 65, but still left room open for expanding the 60 series if needed? I've also seen it claimed somewhere that originally the 66s were meant to be Class 62 and the 67s Class 66 (back when the 67 was pretty much intended to just be a higher-speed 66 with ETH)?

The issue largely revolves around which numbers were used for (largely 3rd rail) multiple unit car numbers in the 6xxxx range
Class 313, 357, 375, 376, 442, 444, 450, 455, 456, 458, 465 causing issues in the 61-68xxx range and 69xxx only available upto 100 as the Pendolino car numbering uses 101+

 

[BRX]

It's basically all just a bit of a shambles, as numbering systems go, isn't it.

 

[dubscottie]

It's basically all just a bit of a shambles, as numbering systems go, isn't it.

In fairness though, when someone sat down 30+ years ago to allocate coach numbers they were not expecting there to be multiple different type 5 loco classes.

Adding 20,000 to EMU vehicle numbers (68701 becomes 268701 for example) would free up 6xxxx numbers for these random rebuilds.

Thats if the computer can handle such a number!

 

[ExRes]

Any photographs of the body shells?

If you are a subscriber to WNXX there are a couple of pictures this morning of 69001 (56311) having its replacement power equipment craned in

 

[High Dyke]

Come to think about it the French aren’t all that hot at making cars either. Well they make good cars then stuff the electrics in. Yes build quality of Renault & Peugeot have hit the Lino in recent years. Straight from an AA mans mouth the most unreliable cars out there are Renault & Peugeot.

In fairness many cars like Peugeot or Citroën (other makers are available) are not actually built in France; they are merely sub-contracted to other countries. This mean a different workforce could build the same model of car, but in a different manner... Wasn't that just the same as the Class 56's? They were a British loco, but built in a different country and by a different workforce to the same design.

On the subject of vehicle numbering then it isn't nothing new...1st generation DMU's were renumbered during their lifetime.

 

[ainsworth74]

Just a quick heads up that the discussion around UIC numbering can now be found in its own thread here. It's quite interesting (in a nerdy technical way ) but also getting quite off-topic! Let's get back to talking about the 69s and any developments on their creation.

Thanks!

 

[richieb1971]

We are beyond the time line on when we were expecting to see a glitzy new 69.

The last post here was months before COVID19 showed up.

 

[37114]

We are beyond the time line on when we were expecting to see a glitzy new 69.

The last post here was months before COVID19 showed up.

I suspect like a lot of companies GBRF have looked at delaying capital expenditure and asked to pause/slow down the work until after lockdown plus social distancing makes it difficult for staff to do the work safely.

 

[randyrippley]

I suspect like a lot of companies GBRF have looked at delaying capital expenditure and asked to pause/slow down the work until after lockdown plus social distancing makes it difficult for staff to do the work safely.

Are they even going to be needed now? The current downturn in trade isn't going to reverse anytime soon

 

[gazthomas]

In recent times re-engining projects have suffered from massive optimism (769s, Vivarail) and coupled with delays in investment due to CV-19 it is inevitable that there will be delays

 

[richieb1971]

Are they even going to be needed now? The current downturn in trade isn't going to reverse anytime soon

It was my understanding the locos would be used for spoil on HS2. Its been a year so there should be something to show for a years worth of effort. I understand that there has been a lockdown recently but the lack of news previous to that is still a concern. I am really intrigued to see what the output of this project is.

 

[Domh245]

Progress has been ticking along looking at the GBRf twitter - they've had refurbished bogies arrive and at the start of April were preparing to install the cooler group having finished installing the cabling for the motors.

 

[richieb1971]

Progress has been ticking along looking at the GBRf twitter - they've had refurbished bogies arrive and at the start of April were preparing to install the cooler group having finished installing the cabling for the motors.

I never thought to look at Twitter. This definitely looks to be going the way most had hoped. 56 bogies and shell, just a weird noise coming from it.

 

[alexl92]

I agree!
How was the number 66 arrived at anyway? It would almost have made sense to be 69 as an update on the 59....

Becuase 666 wasn't available??

 

[D365]

How was the number 66 arrived at anyway? It would almost have made sense to be 69 as an update on the 59....

They're not as capable on heavy haulage as the Class 59s though...

Off the top of my head, Class 61 was originally proposed, but virtually all TOPS numbers between 61-66 are reserved for multiple unit coaches.

Getting back on topic, would I be correct in saying that the primary motivation behind the Class 69 conversion is that GBRf have acquired all of the Class 66s that they can get their hands on?

 

[edwin_m]

They're not as capable on heavy haulage as the Class 59s though...

Off the top of my head, Class 61 was originally proposed, but virtually all TOPS numbers between 61-66 are reserved for multiple unit coaches.

Getting back on topic, would I be correct in saying that the primary motivation behind the Class 69 conversion is that GBRf have acquired all of the Class 66s that they can get their hands on?

I think the 66 can't be manufactured any more unless it's re-engineered to meet the latest emissions regulations. With a temporary peak in demand for HS2 construction and possibly some form of freight decarbonisation on the horizon, it's probably better to invest in a stopgap than in something that would take decades to pay back.

 

[ExRes]

Interesting pictures on WNXX (subscription section) this evening of 56031 & 56311, it seems that 031 (due to be 69002) has overtaken 311 (due to be 69001) considerably in the conversion process, while 311 is still on accommodation bogies 031 is on refurbished bogies with some of the revised roof sections and the light clusters in place

 

[Cowley]

Interesting pictures on WNXX (subscription section) this evening of 56031 & 56311, it seems that 031 (due to be 69002) has overtaken 311 (due to be 69001) considerably in the conversion process, while 311 is still on accommodation bogies 031 is on refurbished bogies with some of the revised roof sections and the light clusters in place

Re the original bogies - Were they only fitted to the class 56s do you know?
I don’t recall seeing a similar design on anything else and I can’t seem to find much online.
I’ve always assumed that they’re pretty robust as I don’t recall too many problems with them or the traction motors etc?

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

Re the original bogies - Were they only fitted to the class 56s do you know?
I don’t recall seeing a similar design on anything else and I can’t seem to find much online.
I’ve always assumed that they’re pretty robust as I don’t recall too many problems with them or the traction motors etc?

I'm sure the bogies are robust (a Schlieren design, I believe), but on a trip from Andover to Ludgershall I commented that the axleboxes seemed to be bottoming out. Driver said 'They all do that.'
Pat

 

[DGH 1]

Re the original bogies - Were they only fitted to the class 56s do you know?
I don’t recall seeing a similar design on anything else and I can’t seem to find much online.
I’ve always assumed that they’re pretty robust as I don’t recall too many problems with them or the traction motors etc?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that they were already being used on a diesel locomotive type from one of those former eastern block country's, but i can't remember which. Maybe Romania with the first 30 being assembled there.

 

[Cowley]

@Dunfanaghy Rd and @DGH 1 - Interesting stuff. I hadn’t heard either of those things before.

 

[DGH 1]

@Dunfanaghy Rd and @DGH 1 - Interesting stuff. I hadn’t heard either of those things before.

Looking on google images, the electroputere 060 DA looks to have similarities