Trowbridge to Stamford

[Techniquest]

Hi all,

I'm looking at the possibility of doing a trip to Stamford soon (not certain on the date yet) to visit my ageing godparents. However, less than keen on the £47.70 OPR (Route Gloucester) I'm seeing as the cheapest, with seemingly no option given when searching for the journey to go via London.

I'll be coming back in one day, so combo day returns appear to be my best bet. In an ideal world, I'd go to Paddington, go to Kings Cross, jump on an EC HST to Peterborough and change for XC to Stamford. Going via Gloucester results in no motive power I'm particularly fussed about.

I would use Advance fares to do the journey, but I haven't got the date set in stone just yet, as the trip has yet to be confirmed. So, with little idea on where to split into day returns for this journey, I request the help of the forum.

All help appreciated.

 

[bnm]

Assuming railcard as you quoted a railcard fare.....

Bit of a weird on this but if you fancy going into Waterloo you can buy an Off Peak Day Return from Shirehampton to London Waterloo (route Warminster/Salisbury) for £17.90. Cheaper and more flexible than the Super Off Peak Day Return from Trowbridge and valid for arrival into Waterloo after 1000 with no return evening restriction. So you can catch the 0753 Portsmouth train, change at Salisbury for SWT 0845 into Waterloo for 1019 arrival. Quite why the fare from SHH to WAT via SAL is cheaper than the one from Trowbridge or even Bristol is beyond me! It's even £1 cheaper than than the equivalent CDR from any other station on the Severn Beach Line!

Tube over to Kings Cross (£5 paper Travelcard with railcard, £3.60 Oyster) for the 1100 to Peterborough arrive 1146, tight unofficial connection for the 1152 to Stamford, Lincs. arriving 1205. Off Peak Day Return £21.00.

So total of £42.90 (£41.50 Oyster).

OK it won't get you to Stamford as early as the via Gloucester SVR (valid after 0500) but does mean you can go via London and only arrive 1 hour later than the earliest possible cross country option. Bear in mind that tight connection at PBO and your return options will be limited to leaving Waterloo at 1950 at the latest, as this is the last opportunity to catch a train to Salisbury that'll connect into a FGW service to Trowbridge. 1701 from Stamford to KGX via PBO for safety. 1801 for tight cross London transfer (31 minutes).

Can't see any savings with split ADV fares for 2, 4 or 8 weeks time.

 

[Techniquest]

Most appreciated that, I hadn't thought about the Shirehampton thing, I'd heard about that somewhere. Around £6 saving as well with the Oyster, which I've got lying around doing nothing. So good news.

The only other way I can think of doing the trip for cheaper was the NatEx coach from here to London, Tube to Kings Cross and then the £21 day return. But the difference is neglible (£21.50 for a day return on the coach, £21 day return plus Tube fares) compared to the Route Gloucester fare.

Bonus in that, should the trip finish soon enough, I could do the return via Leicester and EMT with that day return from London option. Would be my first trip aboard an EMT HST in a long time, so that's made it a very interesting option.

Thanks again

 

[bnm]

Good call on the via Leicester, missed that option. 1705 from Stamford gets you into St Pancras at 1906. Bit more time to get across town for the 1950 from Waterloo.

 

[Techniquest]

From either Kings Cross or St Pancras it's the City branch (the non-London Bridge one anyway) for Waterloo isn't it? Not a move I do too often, so always best to be sure!

Question is though, how long does it take to do Kings Cross/St Pancras to Waterloo? 1906 to 1950 isn't all that long really, especially when including the long walk to the Tube at St Pancras and the inevitable getting lost at Waterloo. Not a terminus I go to at all often.

I did mean to put in my opening post that I had a Y-P, forgot to do so in a rush to get to the kitchen to avoid burning my tea!

Thanks once again for finding those fares for me, most appreciated.

 

[John @ home]

From either Kings Cross or St Pancras it's the City branch (the non-London Bridge one anyway) for Waterloo isn't it? Not a move I do too often, so always best to be sure.

Kings Cross - Waterloo by tube is best:

• Victoria Line: Kings Cross - Oxford Circus
• Bakerloo Line: Oxford Circus - Waterloo

 

[Techniquest]

Ah yes, I'd totally forgotten about that option!

East Coast's site is having difficulty routing me via Leicester on the return on that Kings Cross to Stamford day return, FGW's planner had no problem with it. Indeed, I hadn't thought about that until I saw the journey opportunity.

Looks like I'll either have to leave either than the 1705 (which let's face it, when it comes to XC that's not a bad idea, in case something's gone balls up) as I wouldn't be getting the 1755 from Leicester, since it's booked Meridian. I'd rather get the 1758 and get there a little later as it's booked HST. Although I'd still check the 1755, in case they swapped the diagrams around. No point me going via Leicester to get a rancid 222!

 

[north]

Kings Cross - Waterloo by tube is best:

• Victoria Line: Kings Cross - Oxford Circus
• Bakerloo Line: Oxford Circus - Waterloo

Agreed. This is a cross platform interchange at Oxford Circus. Better than the Warren Street to Northern line option even though it looks more direct on the tube map.

Twenty minutes is doable for this journey.

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks, most appreciated for the confirmation it's a cross platform interchange. I could swear I did the swap between the Bakerloo and Victoria lines when travelling from Victoria to Paddington in May, but I have no recollection of whether it was a cross-platform interchange or not. That was after 2 nights of no sleep (or exceptionally little) mind!

Will probably still be checking my watch every few moments though and will be prepared for a fast run at Waterloo!

Which leads me nicely onto my last question for now:

I'll have multiple tickets to complete my journey, and a cross London interchange is never something I'm comfortable doing without a long time (60+ minutes) to do so. My currently planned itinery for the return journey:

1705 Stamford to Leicester
1758 Leicester to St Pancras (arrive 1918)
Very fast walk to the Tube
Victoria line to Oxford Circus
Bakerloo line to Waterloo
1950 Waterloo to Salisbury
2141 Salisbury to Trowbridge

What, then, happens if the EMT service is late into St Pancras, resulting in a missed train at Waterloo? As has been said in an above post, it's the last connection I can make to get home. Indeed, I've just noticed that the 1920 off Waterloo is the last train that makes a connection at Bristol for Shirehampton apparently (not that I'm going there, but a gripper might be suspect). Same issue I guess for if XC is late on the way to Leicester, missing the EMT to London and thus connections.

I know that you are perfectly entitled to carry multiple tickets for a journey and all that, I've used that many times before. But let's say the 1705 with XC is delayed by X minutes, enough to miss the EMT connection. I then have to get the next one to London, which means I'd have to suffer some 222 no doubt. But I'd put up with it if I had to. By now the 159(s) home from Waterloo will probably be getting ready to go when I reach London. I have little doubt I'd miss the 1950 off Waterloo, then I'd be totally, royally, screwed as I'm on a day return.

The odds are, I guess, they'd shove me onto the next train as far as possible and put me in a taxi home. All fine and well, but said taxi would then be booked to take me to Shirehampton!

I know this thread has gone well above simply asking for fares assistance for a particular journey. No doubt from the above it's obvious I have no faith in connections being made or trains running to time with XC. More so with the Tube though!

All further help will be most appreciated.

 

[455driver]

If you think the trains may be late why don't you book on earlier ones, I mean how is anybody supposed to know what will happen in the future!

There seem to be a lot of these "I want to go as early as possible from A-B and from B-A as late as possible", now people are sorting out routing's and tickets only for the OP to come out with "what happens if". This will only serve to put the people off looking these things up.

If you haven't got the confidence to catch the last trains then don't catch them! The guards will sort something out if you are using recognised connections so what exactly is the issue!

Kings Cross to Waterloo can be done in 18 minutes concourse to concourse, the Salisbury train will probably go from platform 7 or at least around there.

 

[clagmonster]

The minimum connection allowance for St Pancras-Waterloo is 61 minutes, so in the event of delays MML wouldn't be obliged to get you to your destination when you allow less than that. I do agree that in practice you could do the journey in much less than that. This is not to say that arrangements wouldn't be made, but you shouldn't bank on it.
Speaking more hypothetically, if it were a long enough connection, then with a through ticket, assuming break of journey is allowed, this should cover you:
"16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations
You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return
ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you
want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return
ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may not apply to
some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the relevant
Train Companies will make this clear in their notices and other publications."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

The discussion as to whether companies are obliged to get you home when using split tickets and the first train has been delayed has been done to death many times.

 

[222007]

or trains running to time with XC. More so with the Tube though!

Actually Crosscountry are very reliable along this route and the train you are due to catch you could bet your morgage (if you had one) on it arriving on time. The biggest problem we have along here is not our own doing but that of the infrastructure in other words Network rail! As has been mentioned be carefull with connection times as you could fall foul with this them and i have known TOC's to refuse to pay for a taxi due to the connection being invalid (yes it happened to me befor i came into the industry - a cold night on a bench outside sheffield station not fun)

 

[bnm]

Obviously the safest bet is to get the 'via Gloucester' fare!! But then you miss your traction bash opportunities and have to suffer a vomiter up to Brum from Bristol! Or pay through the nose for the 'any permitted'

Worse case scenario with the split fares is that you only get as far as Salisbury on the return journey. Ticket allows completion of journey before 1200 the next day. In which case can I recommend The Cat Tavern very near Salisbury station. Cheap but cheerful Pub/B&B!!

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks for the recommendation. If the worst comes to the worst, then I might just give it a try. Some very useful posts on this thread from you, bnm, thanks!

Maybe I will just get that Route Gloucester fare and put up with boring traction there and back. Safer that way. Unless I leave on the 1605 from Stamford instead.

We shall see. If the trip goes balls up, I have little doubt I'll end up posting some thread in the Stories, Reports, etc section about it. If it goes well, I may well do the same but in a positive light obviously.

 

[bb21]

Agreed. This is a cross platform interchange at Oxford Circus. Better than the Warren Street to Northern line option even though it looks more direct on the tube map.

Twenty minutes is doable for this journey.

I have timed this journey before due to a short connection, 2159 arrival at WAT Platform 11, jumping onto a Northern Line train, changed at Leicester Square for Piccadilly Line, arrival at St Pancras Platform 4 at 2222 for a 2225 departure. All perfect connections, no wait of more than 1 minute for either train, lots of running (and I mean lots), and it took 23 minutes.

The reason I didn't do Oxford Circus is I thought it is a shorter journey to travel to change at Leicester Square and that Piccadilly Line tends to be more frequent, which kind of offset the benefits of a cross-platform change.

That said, you want to remain fit for that journey as I could not move for a few minutes after I got on the EMT service.

So no I doubt it can be done in 20 minutes and if I wish to do it at a more leisurely pace I would give it a good 40 minutes to account for delays/walking/congestion, etc.