• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Old Timetable Maps - A Snapshot in Time

Status
Not open for further replies.

krus_aragon

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2009
Messages
6,105
Location
North Wales
Topic-drifting, and of no help re historical fiction (at least, not of the kind sought by the OP !); but @krus_aragon , your Great-Western-as-at-1902 map is most interesting, in part in a "snapshot of that time" way, in some things which it includes or omits. The GW's cut-off route to the Severn Tunnel and South Wales -- new construction from Wooton Bassett to the junctions near Patchway -- opened in the following year of 1903, is shown as a thick red dashed line. Likewise, though a thin dashed line, the southern end of the route from Cheltenham towards Honeybourne and Stratford-on-Avon: opened (from memory) 1906. The "Titfield Thunderbolt" line is featured only at its far western end, from junction with the Bristol -- Frome line, to Camerton (opened 1882 and, incidentally, abandoned early -- 1925, I think); the Camerton -- Limpley Stoke part, following the route of the Somerset Coal Canal, did not come into being until 1908 -- 10.

A new and slightly bizarre thing to me, shows up near the bottom of the map, towards its right-hand end. Namely: a line south from Pewsey, terminating at Upavon; and one on apparently the same line-of-route, coming up northward from off-map and terminating at Durrington. I think -- hard to tell for absolutely sure from on-screen map copy -- that these are shown as thin dashed, rather than solid, lines. Googling informed me that this must be to do with a scheme which the GWR had, to add to its system a light-railway branch serving military installations on Salisbury Plain: running north -- south, Salisbury -- Amesbury -- Durrington -- Netheravon -- Upavon -- Pewsey. This was administratively "in the works" as at 1898, but never happened; being forestalled by the opening around that date, of the LSWR's branch to Amesbury and Bulford. For who knows what reason, the map chooses to show two separate bits of this putative line's northern section.

Non-GWR trackage: as at 1902, the Weston, Clevedon & Portishead Light Railway was in operation from Weston-Super-Mare to Clevedon; extension on to Portishead not opened till 1907. Nonetheless, the map does not show even the Weston -- Clevedon portion. And it shows the GW's Wantage Road station; but not the Wantage Tramway, though that opened in 1875. One assumes, I suppose, that the GW regarded these light lines, property of independent companies, as too piffling to merit inclusion on its map !
In the interest of encouraging more poring over old maps, here's a larger image of both the northern and southern sections of the route map from my 1902 GWR Timetable reprint:
IMG_20200424_0850332.jpg
IMG_20200424_0849459.jpg
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
21,949
Location
Airedale
Another intriguing omission is the Bicester cut-off beyond Grendon Underwood, with only the route up to the GC at Calvert shown dotted - I hadn't realised that on to Aynho was authorised later.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,689
A time in history, of much interest in the "snapshot" connection -- at a point when moves by the Great Western to make various of its long-distance routes more direct, were in course of taking place; or would come about in the near future, but "not quite yet" as at 1902. Some of these, mentioned in the first and second posts in this thread. Others are; route to the West of England: the cut-off Patney & Chirton -- Westbury had opened in 1900, and is "present and correct" on the map; whereas its counterpart further west, Castle Cary -- Langport, did not open till 1906, and is shown as a thick dashed line. In West Wales, the old, roundabout route to Fishguard via Rosebush, still obtains; no indication on the map, of the forthcoming remedying cut-off Clarbeston Road -- Letterston Junction, which would open in 1906.

One figures that re non-GWR lines on which the GW had running powers and / or which carried GW through coaches: such sections / routes are shown by red lines of assorted degrees of thin-ness (thinner than the thin-ish red lines showing "GWR proper" branch lines). One oddity here: the Festiniog Railway appears to be shown with such a thin red line -- indicating something which would seem physically impossible !

All non-GW lines carrying no GW passenger accommodation, are shown by very thin black lines. With material in this category: there would seem in the main, a pretty high degree of accuracy re the 1902 moment-in-time -- most often, if a line is not shown: it had not yet opened. Enumerating every single apparent error / omission pertaining to lines in this category, would get tedious; but just a few, particularly engage the attention. Concerning what became the Great Central's enclave west of Chester: the part of that between Wrexham and the River Dee is shown, but not Chester (Northgate) -- Hawarden Junctions -- Bidston; the omitted bits here, I think opened during the 1890s and were a going concern fair and square, by 1902. The Garstang & Knott End light railway is not shown at all -- however, whilst its section Pilling -- Knott End did not open until, I think, 1908; Garstang -- Pilling had opened very well before the turn of the century. And the map -- which as I mention in post #1, fails to show the western part of the Weston, Clevedon & Portishead, which was in commission as of 1902 -- shows another line (in full, "main line" plus branch) most renowned as a Colonel Stephens outfit, which was not operational in 1902: the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire aka Potteries, Shrewsbury & North Wales; which was out of service from approx. 1880 -- despite a couple of subsequent slight and abortive gestures at revival -- until reopened by Stephens in 1911. A bit of an apparent clanger dropped by the GW's map-makers, there...

Finally and whimsically, to do with an area well off the Great Western's beat: the Isle of Wight. The map meticulously shows the island's rail network (complete by 1902), with the sole exception of the Bembridge branch. Forgivable, one feels -- any "dead-end" branch is painstakingly shown by the map, with a disc for its terminal station, with name appended. It looks as though doing this with the Bembridge branch, would have involved a fair bit of "jiggering" in confined and complex spaces: with the part of the country involved, not of big significance in the GWR's universe anyway -- much easier to quietly omit the branch !
 
Last edited:

Revaulx

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2019
Messages
526
Location
Saddleworth
Another intriguing omission is the Bicester cut-off beyond Grendon Underwood, with only the route up to the GC at Calvert shown dotted - I hadn't realised that on to Aynho was authorised later.
Greenford - Ashendon Jn opened in 1905, along with the connections to the GC at Neasden and Grendon Underwood. Ashendon Jn - Aynho didn’t follow until 1910. My great aunt played the harmonium in the temporary mission church built in Beaconsfield for the navvies.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,689
Greenford - Ashendon Jn opened in 1905, along with the connections to the GC at Neasden and Grendon Underwood. Ashendon Jn - Aynho didn’t follow until 1910. My great aunt played the harmonium in the temporary mission church built in Beaconsfield for the navvies.

I can't resist asking: did the navvies -- like the First World War Tommies a few years later -- insist on singing topical and off-colour parodies of the hymns, instead of the proper words?
 

Revaulx

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2019
Messages
526
Location
Saddleworth
I can't resist asking: did the navvies -- like the First World War Tommies a few years later -- insist on singing topical and off-colour parodies of the hymns, instead of the proper words?
I'm sure they wanted to. They wouldn't have dared if my great aunt had been within earshot, even though she would have only been in her 20s at the time.
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
8,328
For anyone interested in Scottish Railways, maps for the Glasgow & Edinburgh areas can be found on line at:

https://maps.nls.uk/joins/5911.html
Click on a map to view more detail. These maps are the 1920 versions from Railway Clearing House (RCH)

Versions for 1898, 1907 & 1915 are also available. Just change the "5911" to 5905, 5907 or 5909 respectively.

A RCH 1875 Map for all Scotland may be found at:

A RCH 1899 Map for London area can be found here:
 
Last edited:

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,689
I find a particular fascination in timetable maps or similar, from former days. Fascination for me thus, largely because -- @Bevan Price, I'd say, unlike the Scottish maps re which you've posted -- timetable-type maps were not aimed at railway professionals / enthusiasts; but were trying to interpret the situation at the time, for the travelling public and their requirements: thus needing to attempt to strike a balance between strict accuracy, and -- for the benefit of lay-persons -- clarity / being understandable. With this, and the factor of the date at which the map was published; much interest and entertainment found by me in, among other things, spotting what the map doesn't show, and speculating on "how come". Some would see this as super-nerdish, even for the railway hobby; but I enjoy it, and it doesn't harm anyone...

Another couple of -- to me, interesting -- quirks noticed, re the GWR 1902 map: the branch southward from Weymouth is shown terminating at Portland -- no continuation to Easton. With a bit of "digging", I found that this final section of this route came into being very much later than Weymouth -- Portland (opened 1865): the extension to Easton spent decades in the planning, but -- partly, because of difficult terrain to build through -- was opened only in September 1902: one can figure that the timetable and its map, were published earlier in that year ! One gathers that the lines on the Isle of Portland had a complex history, involving a couple of different local railway companies, plus something of an Admiralty finger in the pie -- a situation which notionally obtained right up until nationalisation, although from the outset, actual operation was jointly by the GWR / LSWR, then GWR / Southern. Hence, Weymouth -- Portland shown on the map by a medium-thin red line; as though a straightforward GWR branch.

And the map does not show the Cleobury Mortimer & Ditton Priors Light Railway (was independent from opening until absorption by the GWR at Grouping, so had it featured on the map, it would have been an ultra-thin black line). CM&DP's absence, is because it didn't open till 1908 -- I had to look it up, to make sure.
 

Revaulx

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2019
Messages
526
Location
Saddleworth
I find a particular fascination in timetable maps or similar, from former days. Fascination for me thus, largely because -- @Bevan Price, I'd say, unlike the Scottish maps re which you've posted -- timetable-type maps were not aimed at railway professionals / enthusiasts; but were trying to interpret the situation at the time, for the travelling public and their requirements: thus needing to attempt to strike a balance between strict accuracy, and -- for the benefit of lay-persons -- clarity / being understandable. With this, and the factor of the date at which the map was published; much interest and entertainment found by me in, among other things, spotting what the map doesn't show, and speculating on "how come". Some would see this as super-nerdish, even for the railway hobby; but I enjoy it, and it doesn't harm anyone...
You are not alone 8-)

I've got Colonel Cobb giving the complete picture, but still enjoy looking at the "customer facing" stuff for the reasons you give. Plus the occasionnally comical extreme measures some of the pre-grouping ones take to avoid showing a competitor's route that's more convenient than its own.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,689
You are not alone 8-)

I've got Colonel Cobb giving the complete picture, but still enjoy looking at the "customer facing" stuff for the reasons you give. Plus the occasionnally comical extreme measures some of the pre-grouping ones take to avoid showing a competitor's route that's more convenient than its own.

Thanks for the reassurance ! I've heard many recommendations of Cobb's work; but to the best of my knowledge, never seen his stuff at first-hand. I make do with several less-comprehensive rail atlases, plus Wikipedia as required.

Yes, "doctoring the maps" to make the competition look feeble and to be spurned, led to some grand fun. I recall a flight of fancy long ago in the Ffestiniog Railway Society's magazine, imagining -- light-heartedly rather than campaigningly -- a body devoted to marketing and promoting the various preserved Welsh narrow-gauge railways; which would devise a map of Wales in which the country would be compressed north - south, and elongated east - west, to make the various n/g lines look longer and of greater significance.
 
Last edited:

S&CLER

Member
Joined
11 Jan 2020
Messages
787
Location
southport
You are not alone 8-)

I've got Colonel Cobb giving the complete picture, but still enjoy looking at the "customer facing" stuff for the reasons you give. Plus the occasionnally comical extreme measures some of the pre-grouping ones take to avoid showing a competitor's route that's more convenient than its own.

A copy of Cobb is a prized possession left to me by a friend who died.
I've read that the GE published curious maps showing a route from Liverpool Street to York that was meant to look as direct as the GN/NE; but I've never seen this illustrated. Has anyone got a reference or better still an illustration? It doesn't seem to be in Holland and Spaven's outstanding book Mapping the Railways.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top