Caledonian Sleeper

[Far north 37]

The 66s are a lot heavier... however, the Class 66 fuel tank holds 3,600 more litres of fuel than the 73/9's (3.4x as big). The 66 also won't be pushing itself at all to haul a Load 8, so its fuel consumption will be considerably less than hauling a heavy freight. The factors noted above were more around range and reliability than cost, though.


The driver still needs to have traction knowledge of the 73/9 as that that's in multi and under power.

If the driver in the 66 didn't sign 73/9s, there'd need to be a second "competent person" in the 73/9.

And the other competent person would most likely sign 66s anyway.

 

[side effect]

Seems to be cancelled now. My first info was from faster route but rtt says it's been cancelled. Nothing on CS twitter page.

 

[TimboM]

Seems to be cancelled now. My first info was from faster route but rtt says it's been cancelled. Nothing on CS twitter page.

It was cancelled when it arrived at Edinburgh just before 06:00.
Full stock went to Polmadie on 5D26 VSTP - left Waverley at 06:45.

Not really much need to put anything on Twitter - suspect there were more crew on the train than passengers.

 

[side effect]

It was cancelled when it arrived at Edinburgh just before 06:00.
Full stock went to Polmadie on 5D26 VSTP - left Waverley at 06:45.

Not really much need to put anything on Twitter - suspect there were more crew on the train than passengers.

Thanks Tim

I was tracking the service last night watching them join up at Lockerbie. Then it seem to stop at Dryfe Junction and then the next junction and one more before I watched it pass Thankerton. Then conked out until 10 and went on faster route and checked arrivals at Inverness. It said it was due to arrive at 13 50. Then I checked later on rtt to see it was cancelled. Must be lack of sleep lol.

 

[Far north 37]

Inverness portion back to two class 73s again 73968 and 969.

 

[TimboM]

Inverness portion back to two class 73s again 73968 and 969.

Back to Shed and Ed in the morning. Brief Double Ed interlude for 66725 to have an Exam.

 

[Highland37]

Why are the 73 not being used in multiple?

 

[Far north 37]

Why are the 73 not being used in multiple?

They are when it is two 73s on the service.

 

[TimboM]

Why are the 73 not being used in multiple?

They are - the 73 is working in multi with the 66.

I'm assuming you're meaning why the 66 + 73/9 combo when there's two or three other 73/9s spare currently at Craigentinny? Go back a page (p240) as there's already some discussion about it there...

 

[Highland37]

Many thanks. I see your point about why not use a 66. Great machines.

 

[Scotrail84]

Many thanks. I see your point about why not use a 66. Great machines.

Limited to 75mph though.

 

[PG]

Limited to 75mph though.

Are there any places North of Edinburgh that the sleeper is timed to require >75mph?

 

[Far north 37]

Are there any places North of Edinburgh that the sleeper is timed to require >75mph?

The coaches are only meant to run at 80mph so its obviously not to much of a problem given the amount of times it is looped for other services on the way north.

 

[43 302]

The coaches are only meant to run at 80mph so its obviously not to much of a problem given the amount of times it is looped for other services on the way north.

They can run at 100mph and do if the services over 20 mins late iirc. Not sure about the Scottish lines though so may not matter.

 

[PG]

They can run at 100mph and do if the services over 20 mins late iirc. Not sure about the Scottish lines though so may not matter.

I'm sure anyone who signs the routes will correct me but AFAIK (from looking at the Sectional Appendix) the only significant bit of route with a linespeed (for loco hauled trains) of 100mph is between Dundee and Arbroath.

 

[ScottDarg]

They can run at 100mph and do if the services over 20 mins late iirc. Not sure about the Scottish lines though so may not matter.

Not on the electric sections they don't - Class 92s have a max permitted speed of 87mph.

They did run at 100mph if running late when Class 90s were used, but that's stopped since the introduction of the Mk.5s.

 

[Highland37]

What's the top speed of multi 73s? The only place I can think of between Perth and Inverness is Kingussie to Aviemore where there is a section of 100mph.

 

[43 302]

Not on the electric sections they don't - Class 92s have a max permitted speed of 87mph.

They did run at 100mph if running late when Class 90s were used, but that's stopped since the introduction of the Mk.5s.

That's interesting. What were the reasons of switching from the 90s to 92s?

What's the top speed of multi 73s?

I think 90 mph for 73/1, not too sure on 73/9 but imagine it's the same.

 

[Highland37]

The 90s can't provide hotel power a full rake of Mk5s.

 

[43 302]

A 90 can provide 475 kW whereas a 92 can provide 540 kW. Does that make the difference?

 

[PG]

A 90 can provide 475 kW whereas a 92 can provide 540 kW. Does that make the difference?

In terms of energy used its enough to boil around 20 electric kettles.

I guess what we're looking for is the hotel power required by a consist of 16 Mk5s - I'm assuming peak load would be near the end of the journey?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In terms of energy used its enough to boil around 20 electric kettles.

That's actually surprisingly low!

 

[popeter45]

In terms of energy used its enough to boil around 20 electric kettles.

I guess what we're looking for is the hotel power required by a consist of 16 Mk5s - I'm assuming peak load would be near the end of the journey?

maths a bit wrong there
assuming 1.2KW kettles thats 395 kettles on class 90 and 450 kettles on a class 92

 

[Domh245]

Just a little bit out - unless of course you're making tea with a combi-boiler!

 

[captainbigun]

A 90 can provide 475 kW whereas a 92 can provide 540 kW. Does that make the difference?

Where have those numbers come from? I'm guessing the rule of thumb 5kW per ETS index of 1. That's a guide, that's not the actual rating. And you've plucked the DC ETS rating for 92.

90 is 500kVA and 92 is pretty much double that.

 

[43 302]

Where have those numbers come from? I'm guessing the rule of thumb 5kW per ETS index of 1. That's a guide, that's not the actual rating. And you've plucked the DC ETS rating for 92.

90 is 500kVA and 92 is pretty much double that.

Yep that's where I got them from. That's interesting that a 92 is double.

 

[DelW]

maths a bit wrong there
assuming 1.2KW kettles thats 395 kettles on class 90 and 450 kettles on a class 92

That would be a very slow kettle - most are around 2.4 - 3 kW.
I think PG probably meant that the difference (between 540kW and 475kW) is around 20 kettles' worth, which would be about right.

 

[Scotrail84]

I'm sure anyone who signs the routes will correct me but AFAIK (from looking at the Sectional Appendix) the only significant bit of route with a linespeed (for loco hauled trains) of 100mph is between Dundee and Arbroath.

Haymarket to Linlithgow/Polmont?

Larbert to Stirling?

Dunblane to Hilton Jn?

 

[Scotrail84]

Not on the electric sections they don't - Class 92s have a max permitted speed of 87mph.

They did run at 100mph if running late when Class 90s were used, but that's stopped since the introduction of the Mk.5s.

The sleeper has no locos capable of running at 100mph. 92's - 87.5mph and 73's - 90mph (if you're lucky)

 

[PG]

Haymarket to Linlithgow/Polmont?

Larbert to Stirling?

Dunblane to Hilton Jn?

Thanks, I'll stick with your knowledge any day of the week ta

That would be a very slow kettle - most are around 2.4 - 3 kW.
I think PG probably meant that the difference (between 540kW and 475kW) is around 20 kettles' worth, which would be about right.

Indeed, rough figures based on (540-475)/3.