Enforcement of the new rules on social distancing, unnecessary journeys etc.

[Qwerty133]

This is not yet the rule in the UK but it's in some other countries. I do not know why it is not here.

Because in many cases it makes logical sense for more than one person to be in a car. There may be times where non drivers in key jobs need lifts to and from work due to reduced public transport (and when such a lift is given by a household member the risk of infection is probably reduced compared to travelling by public transport), people requiring non Covid related medical treatment may not be in a state to drive themselves, or even in some cases it may be that the only driver in a household is not able to shop independently (either through physical disability or mental health reasons) but is capable of waiting in the car park while a family member shops (the use of the car enabling a substantially larger amount of groceries to be purchased and reducing the frequency that shopping needs to be obtained).

 

[Bantamzen]

I heard today of someone who was 'on the spot fined' for being out on his motorbike with his wife on the pillion seat. They were taking medication to the wife's mother. Apparently he was informed that no more than one person should travel in or on any road vehicle. I have searched online for this ruling, but apart from noting that you should not give a friend a lift unless it's to get a key worker to work, I can't see anything about members of the same household being restricted in this way.

Is this another made-up rule by an over-ambitious police officer?

Another example of some Police making up rules as they go along. I would urge anyone finding themselves on the wrong side of these made up rules to make a formal complaint to the relevant Police force, and copy their local MP in. The government need to bring these forces to task as a matter of urgency.

 

[yorkie]

About 40 miles, getting out of town and taking in the air, basically for a "reset" as he is struggling to cope with the changes and being cooped up in a small flat

As the journey wasn't for an allowed reason this was correct.

However...

I heard today of someone who was 'on the spot fined' for being out on his motorbike with his wife on the pillion seat. They were taking medication to the wife's mother. Apparently he was informed that no more than one person should travel in or on any road vehicle. I have searched online for this ruling, but apart from noting that you should not give a friend a lift unless it's to get a key worker to work, I can't see anything about members of the same household being restricted in this way.

Is this another made-up rule by an over-ambitious police officer?

..this one was indeed made up by an overzealous police officer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It sounds possibly a bit harsh.

We are allowed to drive a short distance for exercise. How far had he driven? and was he going for a walk/run or just taking in the air and view?

40 miles doesn't sound harsh, it sounds a rather long way and quite unreasonable. Reasonable would be a couple of miles to your nearest green space or to the edge of town, and only if exercising locally isn't an option. Though I don't think a fine could apply in this case, it would be strong "encouragement" to turn around.

Also you have to be intending to exercise, not just take in the air. I wonder if this was the basis for the fine?

Regarding the fine, which force was it? They seem to be operating rather different approaches.

 

[Meerkat]

I heard today of someone who was 'on the spot fined' for being out on his motorbike with his wife on the pillion seat. They were taking medication to the wife's mother. Apparently he was informed that no more than one person should travel in or on any road vehicle. I have searched online for this ruling, but apart from noting that you should not give a friend a lift unless it's to get a key worker to work, I can't see anything about members of the same household being restricted in this way.

Is this another made-up rule by an over-ambitious police officer?

This is against the rules, though it’s harsh and I would be interested who actually got the fine.
The rider is taking medicine to the vulnerable person - allowed.
The pillion has no excuse for the journey - why do they need to be there, does the old dear not open the door to her son in law?
I wonder what the whole context was. For example were they were walloping it along a fun road that was not exactly the most direct route, got stopped, smugly pulled out the medicine, and got arrogant when challenged.

 

[scotrail158713]

Please quote the piece of legislation that states the maximum permitted driving distance allowed during the lockdown. I bet there isn't a limit.

AFAIK there is no law set in stone - however it is expected you apply a bit of common sense, so in this case your cousin is expected to not drive 40 miles if there’s somewhere closer you can drive to. As I said in an earlier post to someone else though, it may have been more effective if the police had just encouraged him to not drive that far again, instead of fining him for doing it.

 

[trainophile]

This is against the rules, [what rule?] though it’s harsh and I would be interested who actually got the fine.
The rider is taking medicine to the vulnerable person - allowed.
The pillion has no excuse for the journey - why do they need to be there, does the old dear not open the door to her son in law?
I wonder what the whole context was. For example were they were walloping it along a fun road that was not exactly the most direct route, got stopped, smugly pulled out the medicine, and got arrogant when challenged.

You seem to be a jury of one with that response, as everyone else has said they think the fine was unreasonable and probably unlawful. I got the story from a friend, the person concerned is her son, and from what I know of him none of the suggestions in your final sentence would have applied. He is in the military so familiar with adhering to instructions and using common sense. The reason the wife went with him was so she could have a quick chat with her mum from the driveway via a window while the mother stayed inside and the medication was left on her doorstep, as she hadn't been able to see her for several weeks. All sounds perfectly reasonable to me, but perhaps the police officer was not amenable to seeing the bigger picture that day.

Incidentally I tweeted the Home Secretary (@patel4witham) asking the question. Who would like to guess whether I had a reply?

 

[Ianno87]

It sounds possibly a bit harsh.

We are allowed to drive a short distance for exercise. How far had he driven? and was he going for a walk/run or just taking in the air and view?

About 40 miles, getting out of town and taking in the air, basically for a "reset" as he is struggling to cope with the changes and being cooped up in a small flat

I think it’s hard to argue a case that 40 miles is anything other than excessive.

Please quote the piece of legislation that states the maximum permitted driving distance allowed during the lockdown. I bet there isn't a limit.

It is tricky with Autism. The comfort and familiarity of a particular location, even if an excessive distance away, could be argued to be "essential".

 

[404250]

Driving or taking public transport to exercise isn't permitted. You have to run/cycle/walk from your home, max once a day.

 

[Meerkat]

You seem to be a jury of one with that response

Maybe they hadn’t asked themselves the question “what is each of the two peoples’ excuse for travelling”?

The reason the wife went with him was so she could have a quick chat with her mum from the driveway via a window while the mother stayed inside

As repeatedly explained by all the politicians visiting relatives is not allowed!

 

[Domh245]

Incidentally I tweeted the Home Secretary (@patel4witham) asking the question. Who would like to guess whether I had a reply?

When she's as busy as she is giving non-apologies and dodging select committees, not surprising that you're not getting a reply :P

Driving or taking public transport to exercise isn't permitted. You have to run/cycle/walk from your home, max once a day.

Could you please show me the legislation that states this, because none of that is law.

 

[ExRes]

You seem to be a jury of one with that response, as everyone else has said they think the fine was unreasonable and probably unlawful. I got the story from a friend, the person concerned is her son, and from what I know of him none of the suggestions in your final sentence would have applied. He is in the military so familiar with adhering to instructions and using common sense. The reason the wife went with him was so she could have a quick chat with her mum from the driveway via a window while the mother stayed inside and the medication was left on her doorstep, as she hadn't been able to see her for several weeks. All sounds perfectly reasonable to me, but perhaps the police officer was not amenable to seeing the bigger picture that day.

Incidentally I tweeted the Home Secretary (@patel4witham) asking the question. Who would like to guess whether I had a reply?

Who would like to guess how many tweets the Home Secretary has received and estimate how much spare time she has to answer them all? I appreciate your tweet is important to you and you would like an answer but I think you also need to look at the bigger picture

 

[404250]

Could you please show me the legislation that states this, because none of that is law.

I don't know which parts are actual law or not, but it is clear the official guidance is not to travel just to do your exercise. This has been stated numerous times. This is what caused the issue of people travelling to the coast and beauty spots during the weekend before the current guidance was released with the evening statement by the PM.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Sounds like it's some overzealous power trip plod. If only one person is allowed in a vehicle then that would obviously mean buses would have to come off the road as they carry more than one person. I think it's about time the Government had a word with the Police and sort them out properly.

Not the first time that should happen! There was a case near me in Manchester where Plod got shirty about someone delivering supplies to his elderly mother. He drove there alone, dropped the stuff on the doorstep, maybe had a brief conversation through the window, then was stopped by what was I think Plod just on a usual routine, no blues and twos flashing or sounding. Thankfully Plod eventually admitted to having been in the wrong here. Neighbours who know the son were trying to defend him, can't blame them.

 

[island]

I heard today of someone who was 'on the spot fined' for being out on his motorbike with his wife on the pillion seat. They were taking medication to the wife's mother. Apparently he was informed that no more than one person should travel in or on any road vehicle. I have searched online for this ruling, but apart from noting that you should not give a friend a lift unless it's to get a key worker to work, I can't see anything about members of the same household being restricted in this way.

Is this another made-up rule by an over-ambitious police officer?

My cousin, who is autistic phoned me this afternoon to say he had been fined by the police for driving to a remote beauty spot in the adjacent county to where he lived as he lives in a high-rise flat. He was also asked for his mobile phone number and email address. My cousin, who is very passive, complied with the policeman but was surprised at being given a fine straight away.

Was the policeman right to issue a fine straight off and ask for mobile number etc.? My cousin is now fearful that his movements are going to be tracked (presumably via his mobile phone)

There are, as they say, three sides to every story, what one said, what the other said, and what actually happened. Based only on what I see here, it is at least arguable that if two people travel to do something that one could easily have done, the second person’s travel is not essential. I doubt it would get far in court if it got there, though, and as such it seems a bit of a silly penalty to have issued.

Driving 40 miles to have a “reset” is not, in my opinion, a reasonable excuse to leave home, and sadly I think that penalty has been properly issued.

 

[FQ]

Driving or taking public transport to exercise isn't permitted. You have to run/cycle/walk from your home, max once a day.

Completely wrong on every single count. By law it is completely permitted and, rightly so, the law is what actually matters.

 

[jellybaby]

I don't know which parts are actual law or not

That's the point, it isn't the law. It's fine for people to tut in forums but the police should police the law only.

 

[111-111-1]

40 miles doesn't sound harsh, it sounds a rather long way and quite unreasonable. Reasonable would be a couple of miles to your nearest green space or to the edge of town, and only if exercising locally isn't an option. Though I don't think a fine could apply in this case, it would be strong "encouragement" to turn around.

Also you have to be intending to exercise, not just take in the air. I wonder if this was the basis for the fine?

Regarding the fine, which force was it? They seem to be operating rather different approaches.

If you had read my post properly you would have read the second paragraph that asked questions after my comment about the fine.

My reply would have been that 40 mile would seem be too far to be justified combined with it not being for exercise. I wonder whether the policeman was aware of the persons condition, if they were strong advice would have probably been more appropiate on the first occasion.

 

[Mojo]

I think Plod just on a usual routine, no blues and twos flashing or sounding.

Even if they attended as a result of a report, the police would not attend on blue lights as such a call would probably be graded ‘priority’ rather than ‘immediate.’

 

[404250]

I thought you could drive to work if can't be done from home, to shop for essential items, for a medical appointment or need, and to care for a vulnerable person in some way. Not for exercise.

Others above imply that I could drive to the coast, park up, and run along the beach for my exercise before driving home again.

 

[Ianno87]

If you had read my post properly you would have read the second paragraph that asked questions after my comment about the fine.

My reply would have been that 40 mile would seem be too far to be justified combined with it not being for exercise. I wonder whether the policeman was aware of the persons condition, if they were strong advice would have probably been more appropiate on the first occasion.

People on the spectrum aren't always the best at letting people know that they are on the spectrum! Especially in 'heat of the moment' situations.

Ideally, police officers should have awareness of the characteristics to judge this for themselves..but that is not always straightforward to read either.

My wife's Asperger's and reaction to a situation once got confused for her being drunk, just to illustrate the point...

 

[404250]

Completely wrong on every single count. By law it is completely permitted and, rightly so, the law is what actually matters.

In Wales it is law that you can only go out for exercise once per day

 

[111-111-1]

People on the spectrum aren't always the best at letting people know that they are on the spectrum! Especially in 'heat of the moment' situations.

Ideally, police officers should have awareness of the characteristics to judge this for themselves..but that is not always straightforward to read either.

My wife's Asperger's and reaction to a situation once got confused for her being drunk, just to illustrate the point...

Agree fully hence my comment on whether the policeman was aware of the condition.

Having been on a disability awareness course I know it is not easy to judge these things.

 

[FQ]

In Wales it is law that you can only go out for exercise once per day

That is indeed the case, however I was talking about England (where I live). I haven't studied the Welsh law in depth but as far as I know exercise is indeed only permitted once a day but it doesn't prohibit the use of public transport and/or private car as part of it, nor give a time limit.

 

[CM]

AFAIK there is no law set in stone - however it is expected you apply a bit of common sense, so in this case your cousin is expected to not drive 40 miles if there’s somewhere closer you can drive to. As I said in an earlier post to someone else though, it may have been more effective if the police had just encouraged him to not drive that far again, instead of fining him for doing it.

At what point did I say, anyone was my cousin?!

 

[111-111-1]

I thought you could drive to work if can't be done from home, to shop for essential items, for a medical appointment or need, and to care for a vulnerable person in some way. Not for exercise.

Others above imply that I could drive to the coast, park up, and run along the beach for my exercise before driving home again.

The guidance is that where possible that daily exercise should be done without driving, there is guidance that if required people can go a short distance,although not law, 5 mins drive was suggested as reasonable.

It appears that some on here cannot understand that principal of the guidance and will argue that as it is not enshrined in law that you can break the guidance and drive long distances for exercise purposes if you want to.

 

[FQ]

It appears that some on here cannot understand that principal of the guidance and will argue that as it is not enshrined in law that you can break the guidance and drive long distances for exercise purposes if you want to.

I fully understand the principle of the guidance but it is just that - guidance. I'm personally following it but that is the individual's choice and there's nothing compelling them to, unlike the less strict law itself.

 

[trainophile]

Maybe they hadn’t asked themselves the question “what is each of the two peoples’ excuse for travelling”?

As repeatedly explained by all the politicians visiting relatives is not allowed!

Going into relatives' houses is not allowed. Or standing closer than two metres to them. Nothing prohibiting having a chat through a window or in a large front garden.

 

[PHILIPE]

The stopping of vehicles by police for checking seems to throw up other issues. A car was stopped outside Brecon earlier, the driver claiming he was an essential worker on his way home after his night shift. It transpired that his journey was to move £57,000 of cocaine across the country.

 

[404250]

The stopping of vehicles by police for checking seems to throw up other issues. A car was stopped outside Brecon earlier, the driver claiming he was an essential worker on his way home after his night shift. It transpired that his journey was to move £57,000 of cocaine across the country.

Well he is travelling for work he can't do from home I suppose.