hexagon789
Veteran Member
Again, that entirely comes down to how the exams are set. Too many are set so that they will be be easy to mark.
Or are made such a mess of that the pass mark is reduced well below 50%...
Again, that entirely comes down to how the exams are set. Too many are set so that they will be be easy to mark.
If they've managed to learn the solutions to a large bank of well set questions, then they've... erm... learned the subject. Which is rather the point, no?Once you've hit that limit and start reusing them, anyone with access to past papers (which is pretty much anyone sitting an exam) can just learn the solution rather than the material.
If they've managed to learn the solutions to a large bank of well set questions, then they've... erm... learned the subject. Which is rather the point, no?
Thought this worthy of a thread in its own right away from the COVID19 context.
As I posted there:
I'd say it should be enough that there is some sort of appeals process. Exams are a terrible way of assessing someone anyway, and I say that as someone with good exam technique who can pass an exam on something he barely knows anything about.
The useful skill in the 21st century is research and critical thinking. Remembering facts by rote is pointless when you've got every fact you could ever want on a device in your pocket. Exams shouldn't come back now they've gone, in my view.
Thoughts?
I'm inclined to agree, though there is always the risk with assessment on coursework of how much help the child may have had. Perhaps coursework for qualifications should be done on the school premises and not allowed to be removed?
I agree, closed book exams are unrepresentative of the real world and in effect just promote memorising facts which is not a particularly useful skill. Of course, not all exams are cases where you have to regurgitate information, but for my last set of in-person exams in January, by going through past papers I was able to establish most types of question that would come up and they'd either be stating facts that you've committed to memory or 'crank the handle' type answers where you memorise a process but change the values that you put in.
Interestingly, one of my modules currently had recognised this problem and whilst we were going to still have a 'closed book' exam on it (albeit with supplementary information such as thermodynamic constants and energy densities), the convener was trying to make it more 'real-world representative' by having more open ended questions that required more analytical thinking using the information given rather than remembering a calculation we'd learnt in lecture 4.
Which was precisely my point. The skillset needed in the 21st century, even from a very, very early age, is research and critical thinking - that is, how to weed out the rubbish from the facts.
Learning by rote, other than basic skills of literacy and numeracy, really isn't an appropriate or useful modern day skill.
Or to put another way:
The benefit of exams is that they are stressful - which is what happens in real life.
The disadvantage of exams is they are stressful.
I do agree there is probably not a perfect solution. On balance I prefer a mix of coursework, oral presentation and exams - both open and closed book. Of course oral presentation gives an advantage to people who love public speaking.
Then the exams weren't well set.There are plenty of derivations and 'crank-the-handle' type solutions that I've memorised before exams by doing past papers and checking the mark schemes whilst I've been at university. Can I remember those derivations or 'standard' solutions now? Absolutely not
As a former Assistant Examiner for GCSE Mathematics and ICT I can endorse this. 'Easy to mark' for three reasons - easier to ensure consistency, need to get the marking process done quickly, and easier to mark by those not totally familiar with the subject (there always seem to be an examiner shortage). There is also the requirement to cover all parts of the syllabus in the exam, so questions tend to be short as the exam will cover (in possibly 90 minutes) two years work. So answer right. tick, '1' in the margin, answer wrong, cross, '0' in the margin. Set multiple choice exams and you don't even need to pay an examiner.Again, that entirely comes down to how the exams are set. Too many are set so that they will be be easy to mark.
That really depends on what you mean by 'pass'. For some years we had this artificial boundary of a grade C as a pass (at GCSE). If I was looking at potential A Level students in, say, Physics, I would be less interested in whether they had 12 GCSE passes, than if they had, say, 10 GCSE passes which included A* in Physics, Mathematics and Chemistry but narrowly failed in Citizenship and Religious Education.Or are made such a mess of that the pass mark is reduced well below 50%...
Remembering quotes, another useless skill. You probably passed because you remembered one more quote than those that didn't (or the marker regarded learning quotes as a pointless requirement). I used to know the English translation of Caesar's Gallic Wars, Book 1, Chapter 1 off by heart, I can still quote chunks of it half a century later. Have I ever used it? Only to demonstrate how useless learning quotes is!One of the funniest exam situations, was when government changed english literature exams so you couldn't take the text-book in to the exam!
You didn't know what the question asked would involve, so were expected to remember loads of quotes in the chance one of them would be appropriate.
We studied romeo and juliet, I couldn't remember any of the lines for S**t because A) it's in funny old english, B)I'm bad at remembering specific lines and C)How the hell are you supposed to remember specifics like certain words/punctuation (These things are important when evaluating a text!!!!!!!!!!!)
I literally only used "Romeo, romeo, where for art thou romeo" and somehow got a B. God only knows how, my theory is the grade boundaries must have been lowered significantly that year![]()
That really depends on what you mean by 'pass'. For some years we had this artificial boundary of a grade C as a pass (at GCSE). If I was looking at potential A Level students in, say, Physics, I would be less interested in whether they had 12 GCSE passes, than if they had, say, 10 GCSE passes which included A* in Physics, Mathematics and Chemistry but narrowly failed in Citizenship and Religious Education.
I agree that we have dozy 'pass' marks though, as a result of trying a wide range of students into one exam to stretch the best but encourage the average.
Remembering quotes, another useless skill. You probably passed because you remembered one more quote than those that didn't (or the marker regarded learning quotes as a pointless requirement). I used to know the English translation of Caesar's Gallic Wars, Book 1, Chapter 1 off by heart, I can still quote chunks of it half a century later. Have I ever used it? Only to demonstrate how useless learning quotes is!
- GCSE Chemistry students now need to memorise the whole periodic table, because that's not something you can easily google IRL, and there definitely isn't one hanging on the wall of probably every science lab in the world, even if it's for decorative purposes.
-Formulas have been removed from every GCSE/A-level science paper I believe.
I am surprised. I've looked at sample papers for RSA and there are sample data sheets for GCSE Chemistry (https://ocr.org.uk/Images/261355-data-sheet-gateway-science-suite-chemistry-a.pdf). It could be that they are going to be removed or the sample papers are dated, or maybe @GRALISTAIR is right!Oh also the government recently changed the following with exams;
- GCSE Chemistry students now need to memorise the whole periodic table, because that's not something you can easily google IRL, and there definitely isn't one hanging on the wall of probably every science lab in the world, even if it's for decorative purposes.
-Formulas have been removed from every GCSE/A-level science paper I believe.
I am surprised. I've looked at sample papers for RSA and there are sample data sheets for GCSE Chemistry (https://ocr.org.uk/Images/261355-data-sheet-gateway-science-suite-chemistry-a.pdf). It could be that they are going to be removed or the sample papers are dated, or maybe @GRALISTAIR is right!
No. close thread.
Exams are easy. You just need to understand how they work. I have 12 GCSE, 4 A levels, an AS level and a proper degree. I have sat a lot of exams. Revision is hard but you simply need a proper plan and mature approach to question spotting and identification.
Edit: Also exams are so easy these days you basically get an A for showing up. Not like when i did them. Kids today![]()
Now that is so true. When I was an examiner you would know which centres knew how to answer the questions (possible because a staff member was an examiner). They didn't necessarily know more, it was the way the candidates picked up the interim marks (for 'working out' if you like) and for ensuring the answer was of the required depth. No use this year but students used to ask me for the 'answers', what is more use is the marking scheme and examiners reports. They will clearly indicate what is required to get the marks.You just need to understand how they work.
You just need to understand how they work.
Oh also the government recently changed the following with exams;
- GCSE Chemistry students now need to memorise the whole periodic table, because that's not something you can easily google IRL, and there definitely isn't one hanging on the wall of probably every science lab in the world, even if it's for decorative purposes.
-Formulas have been removed from every GCSE/A-level science paper I believe.
Just seems like a memory game vs anything else lol.
Beyond a certain point, simply remembering facts and being able to reel them off isn't good enough. I know once I got to uni, we could have open-book exams with access to the internet, but some of the questions were so specific, no quick Google search would help anyway. Knowing the right places to look, and some context around the specific issue to resolve is far more valuable.
I study video/audio production technologies, including broadcast standards, distribution over IP, recording video/audio content. For me, I don't need to know every detail of every single format or codec in existence, but knowing where to look for them is the important thing. I understand if I wanted to deliver a file to a broadcaster, I'd look for the AS-11 spec. I know some basic details (1080p50i 10-bit .mxf file) but I also know what I don't know and therefore would need to double check (Color subsampling,required metadata,timecode/clocking information), and where to find said information.
Sorry, I'm wrong, they no longer supply the reactivity series or ionic charges or formulas. They do supply the periodic table.
I did my GCSE Chemistry exam about 4 years ago, no idea what reactivity series or ionic charges are
I did it just before the exams changed, so guess I must have been provided them.
That's one option. Another one is that you don't have specific assessable items, but instead you assess performance throughout the course.
Its not 'stealing' marks really. I can only go on papers that I marked, Maths and ICT at GCSE, and, as part of my job, setting and marking papers at Higher National and Foundation Degree Computing, but Examiners are trying to credit ability so 'the right answer' is only worth one mark, but, if the question is worth 3 marks, 2 will be given for particular steps, including, perhaps, choosing the right equation to use and putting the right values into the equation. It is intended to give some credit to the student who presses the wrong button on the calculator and gets the wrong answer. If your son put in lines of equations, I would question whether a mark should be awarded with my Team Leader, depending on how many lines there were. Its not tricking the examiner, the examiner has to follow the marking scheme, they have no discretion, they are probably only too aware of what is going on and would probably stress it in their report. The worst situation is the student who doesn't leave the answer sheet blank but writes down the right answer. They may only be awarded 1 mark. This occurs where a question (or paper) states that working must be shown.This is what floored me all those years ago. We were never "taught" the tricks to steal marks and barely even saw past exam papers.
Can't stand them, easy to mark, unreliable test of ability (the monkey gets 25%). When I started teaching, we had multiple choice with 5 answers, 4 marks for a right answer, -1 for a wrong one!Back in my day, I seem to remember most exams having all or a large amount of multiple choice which you couldn't "game" - the best you could do was ignore the options obviously wrong and make a guess on the couple of viable options, so a 50:50 chance really.
There's more to ICT than Information Technology - IT doesn't include the Communications side of things.They could start by stopping calling it that. It's an invention of the education sector, similar to "CDT", "Food Tech" and the likes. We are the IT industry.