08 and MK1'S at Waterloo International

[NXEA!]

Hello, yesterday i was on a windsor train leaving Waterloo when I saw an 08/09 shunter on a rake of what appears to be 6/7 Mk1's. Anybody know why it was there and what the shunters identity was? Thanks

 

[thefab444]

Are you sure it wasn't a 458 on platform 19? No move of the kind you described was booked to run yesterday as far as I know.

 

[Mr Spock]

There are 2 shunters (08943 and 08911) together with 3 coaches and the Sterling single in the old Eorostar platforms. these are going to be used in the production of The Railway Children that the NRM are staging from July 4th.

The shunters are there to propel the train during shows.

 

[NXEA!]

Thanks

 

[Vulcan]

They're staging the Railway Children at Waterloo? This is a joke!

Why does the NRM spend money on rubbish like this?? The country's most famous steam engine (bar Thomas), Flying Scotman, is still in pieces in the workshops at York, and they are wasting their time and money on doing theatre stuff at Waterloo, using our national treasures (GNR No1) as props??
As though there isn't enough choice for theatre-goers in London already. Why can't the NRM just use its funds and efforts at being a good railway museum??

Sorry but this annoys me no end. I may also be jumping the gun a bit here, having only just heard about this from the post above and have no solid evidence that this is really going on. No offence to Mr Spock, but I really hope this is false information.

 

[GearJammer]

I believe it is true, seem to recall reading about it somewhere, i would'nt be to quick to comment on the NRM tho, is it the NRM that are paying for it all or are they just supplying the stock?

I do think its a bit of an odd location tho.

Just out of interest....... when was the last time an 08 shunter was at Waterloo to shunt stock? ..... or for any reason come to think of it!

 

[thefab444]

I don't know, back when Waterloo had loco hauled trains they would usually use a normal loco (33/47/50/73).

 

[Mr Spock]

It is true. If you go to Waterloo you can no longer see into the old Eourstar platforms due to a giant advertising banner covering them telling you all about it.

Go to the following site:

http://www.yorkshire.com/railwaychildren

 

[theblackwatch]

They're staging the Railway Children at Waterloo? This is a joke!

Why does the NRM spend money on rubbish like this?? The country's most famous steam engine (bar Thomas), Flying Scotman, is still in pieces in the workshops at York, and they are wasting their time and money on doing theatre stuff at Waterloo, using our national treasures (GNR No1) as props??
As though there isn't enough choice for theatre-goers in London already. Why can't the NRM just use its funds and efforts at being a good railway museum??

Sorry but this annoys me no end. I may also be jumping the gun a bit here, having only just heard about this from the post above and have no solid evidence that this is really going on. No offence to Mr Spock, but I really hope this is false information.

Or making money from the sales of tickets for the event at £19.50-£59.50? With performances for 2 months that's a fair bit of cash coming in through the tills for all the event partners...

 

[37401]

Why does the NRM spend money on rubbish like this?? The country's most famous steam engine (bar Thomas), Frothing Scotman, is still in pieces in the workshops at York, and they are wasting their time and money on doing theatre stuff at Waterloo

What about poor 50033, treated like crap and shoved wherever they found space.

 

[2030720310]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXPyWKEbNwY

 

[Vulcan]

No, the NRM's job is to look after the national collection, and to tell the story of Britian's railways. Using a 140 year old, unique, steam engine as a prop in a theatre piece that only tells a FICTIONAL story about some kids that wave at trains and trespass on the railway is not doing this.

I would have thought events such as Railfest would be a much better, and more relevent to the NRM's purpose, way of making money.

I use 4472 as an example, but there are many engines under the NRM's care that could use the time and effort they seem to spend on theatre crap.

 

[thefab444]

How on earth is it going to work with Waterloo station as a stage? Sounds damn awful if you ask me, I hope nobody goes.

 

[37401]

No, the NRM's job is to look after the national collection, and to tell the story of Britian's railways. Using a 140 year old, unique, steam engine as a prop in a theatre piece that only tells a FICTIONAL story about some kids that wave at trains and trespass on the railway is not doing this.

TBH I dont care much for steam so this isnt something I give two toots about, but the NRM only gets money from donations so if this play put on for kids rings in some money to fund frothing scotsman then more power to them I say

 

[Vulcan]

TBH I dont care much for steam so this isnt something I give two toots about, but the NRM only gets money from donations so if this play put on for kids rings in some money to fund frothing scotsman then more power to them I say

what?? care to try that again, but make it make sence this time?

 

[37401]

what?? care to try that again, but make it make sence this time?

TBH I dont care much for steam so this isnt something I give two toots about, but the NRM only gets money from donations so, if this play put on for kids rings in some money to fund frothing scotsman then more power to them I say.

Makes sence to me, if the play will bring in money to fund frothing scotsman then whats the problem

 

[thefab444]

Nope, still doesn't make sense. Something to do with kids and rings and frothing Scotsmen...

 

[Chris125]

This is essentially the same production that was held in 2008 and 2009 at the NRM, produced by the York Theatre Royal - its not some kiddies show being carried out by the NRM but a professional production, i believe with sponsorship from the agency promoting Yorkshire tourism. If i remember correctly the theatre group wanted a venue and some suitable rolling stock a few years back, they came to an agreement with the NRM, both benefitted, and following that success they are moving to Waterloo with it.

I dont see what the problem is - the NRM is about a lot more than just displaying rolling stock with the occasional 'RailFest'; its about showing off the national collection to the nation, not just enthusiasts, and by taking part in this their exhibits are seen by an audience who would probably never otherwise see them, plus gaining plenty of publicity for the loco and museum while securing some much needed revenue. Everyone wins.

Chris

 

[Vulcan]

Yes, they do probably make a fair chunk of money out of it, which is never a bad thing, but I think its possible to have too much of a good thing and if you go to York museum there is a lot of space given over to theatre crap and holding functions and other such none-railway rubbish, often at the expence of having to get rid of a loco or a display.
For example, last time I went even the turntable was being converted into a stage for something. Where are visitors supposed to learn how a turntable works now? And where did the loco that was on the turntable go? There is also a large space next to HST prototype which they use for functions, but the rest of the time it just looks empty. Theres another space in the station hall thats similar.
I wish they'd do more railway-ish things to raise cash, instead of just constant theatre productions. The 'ride the legend' trips to scarbrough were excellent, what happened to those? Also, when was the last time there was a model railway exhibition at the NRM? The great hall would be a good venue for one. They also have all that yard space they used for railfest, why not have various events out there, with visiting engines? There are so many things they could do, but don't and have another theatre production instead.

Furthermore, the Sterling Single is 140 years old. If I was 140 years old I wouldn't much like being loaded onto a lorry and taken down to London, then being pushed around all day by some diesel shunters. Its a unique and valueable member of the national collection, not a theatre prop.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, they do probably make a fair chunk of money out of it, which is never a bad thing, but I think its possible to have too much of a good thing and if you go to York museum there is a lot of space given over to theatre crap and holding functions and other such none-railway rubbish, often at the expence of having to get rid of a loco or a display.
For example, last time I went even the turntable was being converted into a stage for something. Where are visitors supposed to learn how a turntable works now? And where did the loco that was on the turntable go? There is also a large space next to HST prototype which they use for functions, but the rest of the time it just looks empty. Theres another space in the station hall thats similar.
I wish they'd do more railway-ish things to raise cash, instead of just constant theatre productions. The 'ride the legend' trips to scarbrough were excellent, what happened to those? Also, when was the last time there was a model railway exhibition at the NRM? The great hall would be a good venue for one. They also have all that yard space they used for railfest, why not have various events out there, with visiting engines? There are so many things they could do, but don't and have another theatre production instead.

Furthermore, the Sterling Single is 140 years old. If I was 140 years old I wouldn't much like being loaded onto a lorry and taken down to London, then being pushed around all day by some diesel shunters. Its a unique and valueable member of the national collection, not a theatre prop.

ll museums have become more interactive in the last few years. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on your point of view. I think it's very regrettable that it's thought that these places have to be all touchy feely flashing lights in order to inspire people to get away from their computer games and iphoens and visit a museum.

Part of the move towards 'family friendly' (the attempt to attract more visitors who may be looking for a day out rather than an educational experience of elarning how a truntable works!) is also an increase in the number of special events museums are putting on. This brings in extra revenue, and also, or so the theory goes, attracts people to visit the venue who may not otherwise have bothered. As I say, that's the theory of it, and I'm a litle bit sceptical of it myself!

There's another debate here as well. Should collections remain static, or should they be moved about and used so that more people can see and learn about them? On this one I'm more in favour of Stirling Castle being used around the country if possible!

 

[mumrar]

Why does the NRM spend money on rubbish like this?? The country's most famous steam engine (bar Thomas), Flying Scotman, is still in pieces in the workshops at York, and they are wasting their time and money on doing theatre stuff at Waterloo

As the museum entrance is free, they have to find alternative funding methods.

Why can't the NRM just use its funds and efforts at being a good railway museum??

No, if it was a good railway museum, they'd spend money on only cosmetically restoring FS, so that it could be a permanent exhibit at York. Instead, they choose to waste far more on getting it in running order, so when visitors come to England based on it's worldwide fame come to the railway museum in York, it'll be doing a railtour in the back of beyond. It defies logic. IF the engine is so important, IF it has such worldwide fame and IF it is such an attraction, what's the point of denying visitors to the NRM the chance to see it, just to get it in running order?

 

[Vulcan]

As the museum entrance is free, they have to find alternative funding methods.

I'm not denying this, read my last post, first scentance. :roll:

And what the NRM do with 4472 is a discussion for another thread (and has already been done recently). I only used it as an example, theres plenty of things in there that deserve some more care and attention.

 

[Capybara]

I really have no problem with the NRM raising money in as imaginative way as it can and, who knows, if a few kids who attend this event develop an interest in railways isn't that a good thing? However, isn't the real issue that, two and a half years after it closed, Waterloo International is sitting there occasionally putting on this kind of event instead of using its five platforms for what they were designed for when right next door there is an overcrowded national railway station operating at capacity where things go notoriously haywire when even the slightest 'incident' occurs? And that those platforms are unlikely to see proper trains in the foreseeable future.

 

[Chris125]

I really have no problem with the NRM raising money in as imaginative way as it can and, who knows, if a few kids who attend this event develop an interest in railways isn't that a good thing? However, isn't the real issue that, two and a half years after it closed, Waterloo International is sitting there occasionally putting on this kind of event instead of using its five platforms for what they were designed for when right next door there is an overcrowded national railway station operating at capacity where things go notoriously haywire when even the slightest 'incident' occurs? And that those platforms are unlikely to see proper trains in the foreseeable future.

As has been pointed out elsewhere in the past, Waterloo does not lack platforms - it lacks capacity on the approaching lines, especially the eastern (suburban) lines. While it is planned to alleviate this with longer trains, the surburban platforms are limited in length so ideally need to be moved to the other side of the station, using at least some of the international platforms - you might have noticed however that the money to do this massively expensive and horribly disruptive work simply isnt available and isnt going to be any time soon.

With regards to the NRM - it is not just a collection of rolling stock in a shed. Most of its visitors know very little about railways, and to get them to visit they have to do alot more than just show how a turntable works. They have to appeal across a broad spectrum of interest and this is why you have at one extreme enthusiasts running 70013 on the mainline, to the other extreme - the NRM working with a local theatre group to show off one of their prize exhibits in central london.

Chris