Great Western HSTs, why have they now only got 7 coaches ?

[Justin Smith]

Apologies if this question has been asked before, but I'm just down at my parents by the GW mainline and noticed that the HSTs only seem to have 7 coaches. That's back to what they had in the late 70s/early 80s !
I'm sure they went up to 8 coaches in the 80s sometime (I've not got the figures to hand down here) and remained at that number till recently. The East Coast HSTs have gone on the other direction, literally and metaphorically, and they`ve got 9, up from the original 8.

Why the change ?

Incidentally I couldn't help comparing the difference between the service on this line when the HSTs were introduced, over 30 years ago, and that now.
The trains are significantly slower and the coaches have more seats squeezed into them. From the inside they look more like a road coach than a railway coach ! ? !
Still, any virtually any HST/Mk3 is more refined than a Voyager or Meridian, or any DMU come to that......

 

[asylumxl]

I don't think all of them are shortened.

I have observed shorter trains though, and I think it's due to the change from full size buffet to that cruddy little minibar.

 

[Failed Unit]

Apologies if this question has been asked before, but I'm just down at my parents by the GW mainline and noticed that the HSTs only seem to have 7 coaches. That's back to what they had in the late 70s/early 80s !
I'm sure they went up to 8 coaches in the 80s sometime (I've not got the figures to hand down here) and remained at that number till recently. The East Coast HSTs have gone on the other direction, literally and metaphorically, and they've got 9, up from the original 8.

Why the change ?

Incidentally I couldn't help comparing the difference between the service on this line when the HSTs were introduced, over 30 years ago, and that now.
The trains are significantly slower and the coaches have more seats squeezed into them. From the inside they look more like a road coach than a railway coach ! ? !
Still, any virtually any HST/Mk3 is more refined than a Voyager or Meridian, or any DMU come to that......

You will probably find that the 7 coach HST have the buffet car removed and replaced with a mini-buffer. They hang around places like Oxford where they demand for a full buffet is not as high.

My understanding that journey times are slower for a number of reasons, defensive driving, more recovery time and extra stops. I understand that in 1976 there was a train that ran non-stop from Newport - London, now all stop at least at Bristol Parkway, Swindon and probably Reading well.

On the East Coast Edinburgh - London can be done in 4:19 on the 11:30 Edinburgh - London service. Not bad for a HST, whenever I have used it, 4:10 could have been possible if it had got a clear run as it waits at Newcastle and York. BUT that is the reason it doesn't happen. Take the 1700 London - Edinburgh service, it gets slowed between London and Hitchin for Cambridge services (fair enough and not by much but no chance of a headline run). It often needs to wait for platforms at York, Newcastle and Edinburgh. I have often sat outside Waverley at 2109 near the tunnel. The days of clear paths for premium services are gone. The railway is too busy for it.

If you want to see slower journeys with faster trains look at XC!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think all of them are shortened.

I have observed shorter trains though, and I think it's due to the change from full size buffet to that cruddy little minibar.

Correct, you should not see a shortern train on London - Swansea or London - Plymouth and beyond.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Apologies if this question has been asked before, but I'm just down at my parents by the GW mainline and noticed that the HSTs only seem to have 7 coaches. That's back to what they had in the late 70s/early 80s !
I'm sure they went up to 8 coaches in the 80s sometime (I've not got the figures to hand down here) and remained at that number till recently. The East Coast HSTs have gone on the other direction, literally and metaphorically, and they've got 9, up from the original 8.

Why the change ?

Incidentally I couldn't help comparing the difference between the service on this line when the HSTs were introduced, over 30 years ago, and that now.
The trains are significantly slower and the coaches have more seats squeezed into them. From the inside they look more like a road coach than a railway coach ! ? !
Still, any virtually any HST/Mk3 is more refined than a Voyager or Meridian, or any DMU come to that......

They have a mixture of 2+7 and 2+8, the 2+7s with mini buffet only mainly used only for shorter routes, primarily Oxford and some Bristol/Cheltenham services. I understand that the lower weight assists acceleration and fuel consumption, especially on the Oxford route which is basically an outer-suburban commuter service. Services to the West and Wales still have a full buffet, unless there is a shortage of sets or a mix-up.

Also in the last year or so many sets were running short of a buffet due to the refurbishment programme, but I believe this is ostensibly complete. We went through period of short formed and misformed sets for a time but this seems to have settled down now.

 

[swt_passenger]

Apologies if this question has been asked before, but I'm just down at my parents by the GW mainline and noticed that the HSTs only seem to have 7 coaches. That's back to what they had in the late 70s/early 80s !
I'm sure they went up to 8 coaches in the 80s sometime (I've not got the figures to hand down here) and remained at that number till recently. The East Coast HSTs have gone on the other direction, literally and metaphorically, and they've got 9, up from the original 8.

FGW have a mixture of 7 and 8 car sets, but I think they are still sorting out the final numbers and exactly which sets run where. Services to Devon and Cornwall are usually 8 coaches.

 

[Greenback]

Swansea services ar enormally 8 coaches. I don't like the interiors much now, but more seats had to be squeezed in to satisfy DfT. I think they were more comofrtable trains 10 years ago.

The services are slower now as they are treated more like semi fast outer suburban trains than inter city expresses. I rmemebr when some South Wales trains ommitted Reading and Swindon, being first stop Bristol Parkway after Paddington. Now there are a lot more calls at Didcot Parkway too. Add to that the ridiculous amount of timetable padding to help FGW to meet it's punctuality targets - sorry, I mean to help customers with a more reliable service, and it;s no wonder that times are slowly creeping back to what they were in 1974! In fact the 2115 takes 3 hours 22 mins to get to Swnasea, according to the timetable, 49 mins more than the headline time of 2hrs 48 mins when the HST's were introduced!

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

The HST service in the late 70's & early 80's was far quicker than today's timetable.

Paddington - Wales services used to call at:
Reading, Bristol Parkway, Newport, Cardiff, Bridgend, Port Talbot (it wasn't Parkway then), Neath & Swansea, some "peak" & "contra-peak" services even omitted the Bristol Parkway call as well, now we have to put up with slower services.

The West of England services were always a bit variable, but the Up & Down Riviera were both "Fast" from Exeter St David's to Paddington and very limited in stops, the journey times were again quicker than today.

If I remember correctly the Riviera used to call: Exeter St David's, Plymouth, Liskeard, Bodmin Road, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, St Erth & Penzance & v.v.

All of them were full HST sets with either a minimum "Buffet" service, with the business trains offering the full "Restaurant" service.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, the traditions of the full service express have now almost been eliminated completely!

 

[jopsuk]

Isn't also the 2+7 sets that have the higher density seating layout in Standard Class? Does rather highlight the craziness of HSTs being used on the Oxford commuter services.

 

[devon_metro]

Its worth noting that ATP hinders the speed of trains, due to the age of the kit, a signal might be green however it will not allow you to accelerate above a certain speed until it passes the appropriate beacon (assuming the signal previously was displaying a single yellow)

 

[Techniquest]

High time the ATP system got replaced. I'm told it can be ultra fussy when you get near 125mph, and that some services never reach 125 even when the opportunity arises! Still, ancient technology that's served well but needs to be replaced with something superior now.

As for 2+7 sets never going to the West/Swansea/Hereford etc, unless there's problems, nothing is impossible. When the ex-Virgin set came into play (still with ex-Virgin condition seats!), it was supposed to be kept off Swansea services. Guess where it ended up going on a considerable number of occasions, and who took the opportunity to have a slightly different set on his stomping ground

That said, I can't say I've seen 2+7 sets in the South West before, although I don't tend to venture down that way all too often. However, it wouldn't surprise me whatsoever if one went down that way. Such occurences were predicted by many when the buffet-less sets started running, most especially during disruption. Which at the moment is happening far too often (the amount of lineside equipment problems we're getting in Wiltshire lately is crazy).

Journey times, indeed they are slower. Which is a right shame, but then with the defensive driving tactics used on FGW (although I have seen exceptions ), you'd never get a 1981 timetable run!

Would be nice if we could see things like the 1115 Paddington to Swansea run RA to Newport as it did in the summer of 1981 (I've spent a bit too much time on Hellfire recently ), however the likelihood of that is nigh on impossible these days. For a start, you've got a very busy mainline with potential conflicts all over the place from Paddington to Didcot Parkway. Then Swindon has grown somewhat since the days of super express HSTs, no doubt removing stops on several trains a day in both directions there would cause an uproar. Bristol Parkway's also used a lot more these days than it used to be I'm led to believe, so not stopping there would no doubt cause an uproar too.

Then you get to Maindee Junction, where FGW meets ATW. Back in the day, the Marches was horrendously served with something stupid like 6 Cardiff to Crewe and vice versa services a day (again, looking at the Hellfire timetable). These days the service is at least hourly, so one of them has to wait. Although this seems to happen anyway on ATW stuff at Maindee anyway in my experience!

Aside from that, it's rather busy all over the FGW empire, so removing stops at all would no doubt outrage someone. Indeed, I believe Didcot Parkway gets tons of stuff stopping there due to local pressure.

Finally, don't forget that not all delays are due to FGW. Perfect example was recently when I was on the 1849 Worcester Foregate Street to Paddington. Minor delays on the way down due to a slightly late 1721 Paddington to Hereford at Evesham, but a mahoosive 12 minute booked stop at Oxford ended up being a full 12 minutes, as we'd been given a clear run over Wolvercot Junction and Oxford North Junction. Which showed just how much slack was employed in this service. Anyway, we were on time and charging along until Tilehurst when the driver hit the brakes and we stopped at R75 (I think, I'll check my notebook if anyone's curious), with me wondering what was going on.

We were only getting held (and made late) for 66538 on a northbound Freightliner coming off the Reading avoider! Cue a bellow of "THIS IS NOT AMERICAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" from me, on the basis that in this country we do the sensible thing and put passenger trains in front of freight, not the other way around as in the USA! OK, so we arrived only 3 minutes late, hardly huge, but it was still irritating.

Anyway, enough of me ranting!

 

[Greenback]

7 coach HST's do visit Swansea now and again, but are usually 8. I'm pretty sure 7 coaches also get down to the West Country in these circumstances, but as I don't live there, I couldn't say for definite!

Talking of timetables and pathing, there used to be a lot more freight around than there is today. Many of the enhanced Regional Railways sevices introduced in the 1980's were only possible thanks to the extra capacity released by the reduction in parcels trains, milk trains, coal trains and the demise of the old local pick up freight services during the previous decade. I'm thinking particularly of South Wales and the Marches line, rather than the GWML, whcih I know is heavily used at the London end, so I'm not diagreeing with what you say, just trying to expand a bit!

 

[devon_metro]

The odd set with TSB pops down, although usually on the 0818 pad - exd, or late evening Paddington - Plymouth/Exeter.

Re: fast journey times, i've been at Exeter before when the 1206 Paddington - Penzance has arrived at Exeter at 1358. Thats a staggering journey time of 1h52, nearly 90mph average IIRC.

 

[Techniquest]

7 coach HST's do visit Swansea now and again, but are usually 8. I'm pretty sure 7 coaches also get down to the West Country in these circumstances, but as I don't live there, I couldn't say for definite!

Talking of timetables and pathing, there used to be a lot more freight around than there is today. Many of the enhanced Regional Railways sevices introduced in the 1980's were only possible thanks to the extra capacity released by the reduction in parcels trains, milk trains, coal trains and the demise of the old local pick up freight services during the previous decade. I'm thinking particularly of South Wales and the Marches line, rather than the GWML, whcih I know is heavily used at the London end, so I'm not diagreeing with what you say, just trying to expand a bit!

Agreed they are usually 8. Like you, I aimed not to disagree but just add a couple of points. Since you live in that area, unlike myself these days, I'm happy to take your word for it on what happens down there. These days, I observe the Bristol to Paddington and vice versa workings more than owt else, partly due to my current location and the fact that Swindon to Bristol Parkway isn't valid on a Heart of Wessex Ranger. Seen Swindon to Bristol Temple Meads far too often now

Good point with the enhanced RR stuff, although that was before my time so can't really comment.

 

[Geezertronic]

When you guys say defensive driving, does that mean driving in a fuel saving manner for example?

 

[Failed Unit]

On the East Coast point of views, how do the HST's times compare now to the 70's and 80's (although we can only really compare post Selby Diversion to be fair).

Northbound we have 4h23 on the 1030 service (I think in BR days it didn't stop at Peterborough or Darlington)
Southbound the 755 Inverness - London can do Edinburgh - London in 4h21. Is that much different to BR.

I know we had the 3h59 mk4 timings in the 90's with stops at York and Newcastle only, something that the busier network means are consigned to history. The current 1500 gets stuck behind XC services a lot of the time now.

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

The Flying Scotsman used to call at: Newcastle, Edinburgh & stations to Aberdeen.

I remember when I was a lot younger being on the platform at York and watching it trundle through the station on a through road.

 

[Techniquest]

When you guys say defensive driving, does that mean driving in a fuel saving manner for example?

I believe most people would take it to mean pulling away slower and braking earlier/less harshly. I don't know for sure what other people's definition of 'defensive driving' is, but the above sums up what I see it as.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Flying Scotsman used to call at: Newcastle, Edinburgh & stations to Aberdeen.

I remember when I was a lot younger being on the platform at York and watching it trundle through the station on a through road.

Which is the way it should be. Named services used to be the super express runs, not ones that stop at every lamp post, as they seem to now. Exception to that would be The Golden Hind, that one does run to a fairly limited stopping pattern. RA Redruth to Penzance and vice-versa, as well as being pretty express down to Cornwall in the first place.

These days, The Flying Scotsman service on the ECML stops far too often to be worth running as a named service. The Highland Chieftain shouldn't be stopping everywhere either. Granted, it doesn't exactly do that anyway, but stopping it at Peterborough only crowds it with people only going to Peterborough. For a service that's very popular, most especially on Fridays and in the high tourist season, having the train seemingly full of Peterborough passengers taking up seats doesn't seem right. If I had the opportunity, I'd revert it in both directions (I'm led to believe it now stops at Newark North Gate on the southbound leg now!) to be RA between York and Kings Cross.

As far as I know, it's still then only Newcastle and Edinburgh northbound (before picking up the Scottish stop), but you have this strange idea of stopping the country's longest single working (unless the Penzance to Aberdeen is running again) at places like Alnmouth just seems bizarre. So again, if I had the opportunity to do so, it would be Newcastle and York only southbound. Heck, I'd remove the York stop if it wasn't so useful to have it in there!

That said, if I had my way, there'd be HSTs back on Blackpool/Holyhead services too

 

[devon_metro]

I believe most people would take it to mean pulling away slower and braking earlier/less harshly. I don't know for sure what other people's definition of 'defensive driving' is, but the above sums up what I see it as.

More a case of braking at double yellows instead of braking later in case it changes etc. Taking less risks, official FGW braking policy is 3 bar brake pressure I believe on HSTs. They've scrapped the silly notch 2 departure stuff though since Bubbles left the company.

 

[Techniquest]

Thank fook, that was doing no-one any favours!

On which note, does anyone know if that outlandishly annoying restriction is still in place for HSTs at Penzance? Now we have considerably quieter MTUs, surely there is no need for it now?

Thanks for that post devon_metro, although my example of the 1849 Worcester FS to Paddington recently sure braked later than double yellow. Or at least the brakes came on rather heavily by the time we hit the single yellow!

 

[Failed Unit]

These days, The Flying Scotsman service on the ECML stops far too often to be worth running as a named service. The Highland Chieftain shouldn't be stopping everywhere either. Granted, it doesn't exactly do that anyway, but stopping it at Peterborough only crowds it with people only going to Peterborough. For a service that's very popular, most especially on Fridays and in the high tourist season, having the train seemingly full of Peterborough passengers taking up seats doesn't seem right. If I had the opportunity, I'd revert it in both directions (I'm led to believe it now stops at Newark North Gate on the southbound leg now!) to be RA between York and Kings Cross.

As far as I know, it's still then only Newcastle and Edinburgh northbound (before picking up the Scottish stop), but you have this strange idea of stopping the country's longest single working (unless the Penzance to Aberdeen is running again) at places like Alnmouth just seems bizarre. So again, if I had the opportunity to do so, it would be Newcastle and York only southbound. Heck, I'd remove the York stop if it wasn't so useful to have it in there!

That said, if I had my way, there'd be HSTs back on Blackpool/Holyhead services too

The named train on the East Coast Route
1000 Flying Scotsman,
Peterborough, York, Darlington, Newcastle, Edinburgh - 4h25 (which is slower than the 1100 which also stops at Berwick)
1030 Northern Lights
Peterborough, York, Newcastle, Edinburgh - 4h23 onwards again slower than the 1100 which 4h19
1200 Highland Chieftian,
Peterborough, York, Newcastle, Edinburgh - 4h27 onwards to Inverness again the 1400 can do the route in 4h26 with more stops!
1500 fastest train Northbound 4h13 York, Darlington, Newacastle and Berwick

Southbound
755 Inverness - London (fastest Southbound 4h20) - Chieftain
Edinburgh, Newcastle, York
952 Aberdeen - London (4h27) - Northern Lights
Edinburgh, Newcastle, York, Peterborough, London
1150 Glasgow - London (4h41) - Flying Scotsman but hardly flying!
Edinburgh, Berwick, Newcastle, Darlington, York, Doncaster, Peterborough, London

Fastest of the day is the 1350 Glasgow - London (4h19)
Edinburgh, Newcastle, York, Peterborough this used to be one of the train that was 3:59 under BR

I must admit some wierd timings exist, such as 0550 Edinburgh - London,
Edinburgh, Berwick, Newcastle, York, Grantham ????, London and 752 Aberdeen - London, Edinburgh, Newcastle, York, Newark?????, Peterborough, London

 

[devon_metro]

Thank fook, that was doing no-one any favours!

On which note, does anyone know if that outlandishly annoying restriction is still in place for HSTs at Penzance? Now we have considerably quieter MTUs, surely there is no need for it now?

Thanks for that post devon_metro, although my example of the 1849 Worcester FS to Paddington recently sure braked later than double yellow. Or at least the brakes came on rather heavily by the time we hit the single yellow!

Well obviously there are some drivers who don't give a monkeys until the ATP starts kicking in

 

[Techniquest]

Ahhh, I was getting the 0752 Aberdeen to Kings Cross and 0755 Inverness to Kings Cross confuddled there. With the former, it seems to follow the pattern of a significant number of long distance services these days, in that they stop more than the shorter distance ones. That stop at Newark on the 0752 Aberdeen to Kings Cross apparently compensated for the withdrawal of a stop on a Leeds to Kings Cross.

Quite why the shorter distance trains have to stop less often than the long distance ones do is beyond me. Did stopping at Newark make much of a difference to that Leeds to Kings Cross service (I don't know what time that leaves Leeds, I didn't note it when observing the change in the early hours of this morning in The Railway Magazine)? It now adds even more time to the Aberdeen to Kings Cross, which even though it should only be a few more minutes must impact its path to some degree.

Such a thing does seem to make a difference to people, if the old adage from BR 'reduce journey times, increase revenue' is true. Obviously this seems to be the case with that Leeds to Kings Cross, but only to the detriment of longer distance passengers on the Aberdeen to Kings Cross. A similar case would be that of Grand Central's first northbound service to Sunderland. It now leaves 14 minutes later but the overall journey time has increased considerably. When I saw the new times a few weeks ago, I could well understand why Grand Central were concerned it would lose them passengers and thus revenue. It was never exactly fast before, now it's considerably slower.

The sooner these Kings Cross to York stopping services are introduced, the better. I've not studied the Eureka timetable, as for someone living on the other side of the country it has little impact. Nevertheless, I hope it brings some significant changes to the ECML. Faster journey times on the key express services are long overdue, as is the end of stopping them where they shouldn't need to be calling.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well obviously there are some drivers who don't give a monkeys until the ATP starts kicking in

It would appear so. I recall thinking to myself "Fook, he's got some faith in his brakes!". Which obviously he should do really, so long as the set's working as well as it should do.

Maybe he was on the last working of the day for his shift and wanted to get home

 

[Failed Unit]

Ahhh, I was getting the 0752 Aberdeen to Kings Cross and 0755 Inverness to Kings Cross confuddled there. With the former, it seems to follow the pattern of a significant number of long distance services these days, in that they stop more than the shorter distance ones. That stop at Newark on the 0752 Aberdeen to Kings Cross apparently compensated for the withdrawal of a stop on a Leeds to Kings Cross.

Quite why the shorter distance trains have to stop less often than the long distance ones do is beyond me. Did stopping at Newark make much of a difference to that Leeds to Kings Cross service (I don't know what time that leaves Leeds, I didn't note it when observing the change in the early hours of this morning in The Railway Magazine)? It now adds even more time to the Aberdeen to Kings Cross, which even though it should only be a few more minutes must impact its path to some degree.


The sooner these Kings Cross to York stopping services are introduced, the better. I've not studied the Eureka timetable, as for someone living on the other side of the country it has little impact. Nevertheless, I hope it brings some significant changes to the ECML. Faster journey times on the key express services are long overdue, as is the end of stopping them where they shouldn't need to be calling.
:

The service involved is the 1240 Leeds - London service,
Previously
Wakefield (1252), Doncaster (1311a 1314d), Newark (1342), Peterborough (1410), London (1505)
York (1253), Peterborough (1403), London (1457)

Now
Wakefield (1252) Doncaster (1311a 1311d), Peterborough (1359), London (1451)
York (1253), Newark (1340), Peterborough (1409), London (1505)

So the Leeds and Aberdeen trains have swapped paths. It may be to remove a conflict in Doncaster, The Aberdeen service used to have to stop and let the Leeds service go in front of it. If the Aberdeen was late the Leeds service would need to be held at Doncaster (although it could have been loop at Newark). It always struck me as strange to why they stop a highspeed train to let a stopping train past. Yes they are both class 1's but surely it would have less impact to stop the Leeds service which was going to stop at Doncaster anyway. The have done the same thing with the 1140 ex Leeds and transfered the Newark stop onto an Edinburgh service. However in this case the Edinburgh service take the same time as it had lots of slack!

 

[90019]

I don't know for sure what other people's definition of 'defensive driving' is, but the above sums up what I see it as.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eAF43MLdYA

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

Now that's funny.

 

[truckman060473]

boarded a sunday HST last wk that was 7 coach from Llanelli to Carmarthen (17.36 service)

 

[LE Greys]

Cutting down to seven does 'tailor' the HST to the route, proving that their built-in flexibility is very effective. However, you have to wonder whether the Dellas they had previously could not have been made more reliable, since they seemed to fit neatly between HSTs and Turbos. Maybe we should be more used to flexible formations, which are very common where loco haulage still exists.

They've scrapped the silly notch 2 departure stuff though since Bubbles left the company.

That had the bizarre side-effect of causing drivers to hit notch 3 just before the rear power car passed the subway at Bath, where there is always a build up of people. Not everybody appreciated a Valenta opening up right next to them as much as I did, and hearing it approach would have given them more time to prepare for it. It's academic now that we have MTUs, but was there any real point to it? GNER never bothered, so we always got the sound echoing off the roof at York.

 

[flymo]

On the East Coast point of views, how do the HST's times compare now to the 70's and 80's (although we can only really compare post Selby Diversion to be fair).

Northbound we have 4h23 on the 1030 service (I think in BR days it didn't stop at Peterborough or Darlington)
Southbound the 755 Inverness - London can do Edinburgh - London in 4h21. Is that much different to BR.

I know we had the 3h59 mk4 timings in the 90's with stops at York and Newcastle only, something that the busier network means are consigned to history. The current 1500 gets stuck behind XC services a lot of the time now.

Flicking through the May 84 - May 85 timetable the fastest timings Edinburgh - Kings Cross was the Flying Scotsman at 4h30m both ways. This was at 1000 off KX then Newcastle 1253- 1256, Edinburgh 1430. (To Aberdeen via Dundee, Arbroath, Montrose, Stonehaven & Aberdeen).
The other way was Edinburgh dep 1040, Newcastle 1215 - 1218, then KX at 1510. (From Aberdeen dep 0810 via Montrose, Arbroath, Dundee & Kirkcaldy).

The Highland Chieftain did KX (dep 1200) - Edinburgh in 4h47m calling at York, Darlington, Newcastle, Berwick-upon-Tweed, Dunbar. (To Inverness via Haymarket, Linlithgow, Falkirk Grahamston, Larbert, Stirling, Perth, Dunkeld, Pitlochry, Blair Atholl, Dalwhinnie, Newtonmore, Kingussie, Aviemore, Carrbridge and Inverness (2050))
The other way it did it in 5h05m leaving Edinburgh at 1055 calling at Dunbar, Berwick-upon-Tweed, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, York, Doncaster, Peterborough and KX (1600). From Inverness at 0720 via Aviemore, Kingussie, Pitlochry, Perth, Gleneagles, Dunblane, Stirling, Falkirk Grahamston & Haymarket

 

[jopsuk]

(as we're well off the Great Western at this point) I have memories of a period in the nineties when the Highland Chieftan, at least southbound, would stop at Polmont. I can rember this as we used to take my Grandparents there to board rather than Stirling as the disabled access to platform 3 was poor, and driving into Falkirk was a right royal PITA. How long did that go on for?