New East Coast Livery

[dubscottie]

Found a pic of the new livery on another site. Looks like a undercoat though as the ribs on the bodyside really stick out!

http://www.railwayherald.org/images/photos/750/750156461.jpg

 

[mumrar]

Found a pic of the new livery on another site. Looks like a undercoat though as the ribs on the bodyside really stick out!

http://www.railwayherald.org/images/photos/750/750156461.jpg

I think that the fact there's a fresh set just two tracks behind the mk4s in current East Coast, we can assume this is some form of preparatory stage only. They haven't really started the 91 and mk4s yet.

 

[Aictos]

Certainly looks like a undercoat, best thing to is remove the ex GNER livery which used vinyls and stick to the BR Intercity livery they carried before privatisation with East Coast at the opposite end of the coaches to Intercity,

Used to hate the GNER livery when it first came out especially when I grew up on Intercity Swallow.

 

[Dreadnought]

I think that the fact there's a fresh set just two tracks behind the mk4s in current East Coast, we can assume this is some form of preparatory stage only. They haven't really started the 91 and mk4s yet.

The set in the background is a HST set.

It has been stated on WNXX that the Mk4s will be silver with bluey black doors (similar to Wales & Border Alphaline livery!)

 

[Failed Unit]

Certainly looks like a undercoat, best thing to is remove the ex GNER livery which used vinyls and stick to the BR Intercity livery they carried before privatisation with East Coast at the opposite end of the coaches to Intercity,

Used to hate the GNER livery when it first came out especially when I grew up on Intercity Swallow.

I miss swallow as well, but even if vinyls were used originally, the sets got a full repaint under "mallard". I guess the 1st "mallard" sets are approaching 7 years old now so probably ready for the next repaint.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The set in the background is a HST set.

It has been stated on WNXX that the Mk4s will be silver with bluey black doors (similar to Wales & Border Alphaline livery!)

God I hope not, to me personally that is one of the worse liveries to hit UK railways and thier is no sign of it going anywhere either. (Still can be seen in Wales and Scotland to name 2 places. Gone on EMT )

 

[Dai.]

The set in the background is a HST set.

It has been stated on WNXX that the Mk4s will be silver with bluey black doors (similar to Wales & Border Alphaline livery!)

That would explain the dark undercoat.

I don't think the east coast logo will go well on it though.

 

[jopsuk]

Surely a basic white livery (essentially little more than undercoat) would be the "smart" option right now, similar to the latest NXEA units?

 

[Daimler]

Surely a basic white livery (essentially little more than undercoat) would be the "smart" option right now, similar to the latest NXEA units?

i understand why you're saying that, from the point of view that the livery will only be temporary, but the fact is that even if the franchise is re-let fairly quickly, whatever livery the trains are painted in is likely to be around for a good three or four years, at least. And white looks awful unless the trains are kept immaculate.

 

[rail-britain]

white looks awful unless the trains are kept immaculate

That is why in BR sector days very few liveries included white (in large proportion)
The main exception was INTERCITY on the locos and DVTs

Equally, BR preferred to go with "dull" colours (grey, grey, and more grey)

 

[Goldfish62]

Certainly looks like a undercoat, best thing to is remove the ex GNER livery which used vinyls and stick to the BR Intercity livery they carried before privatisation with East Coast at the opposite end of the coaches to Intercity,



I don't think vinyls were used originally - the shiny finish indicated it was a full paint job.

 

[Crossforth]

i understand why you're saying that, from the point of view that the livery will only be temporary, but the fact is that even if the franchise is re-let fairly quickly, whatever livery the trains are painted in is likely to be around for a good three or four years, at least. And white looks awful unless the trains are kept immaculate.

I think the idea is that the livery will remain, like the Scot Rail livery.

Each operator will apply its own branding to the base livery.

 

[rail-britain]

I was under the impression the DfT had still not made a decision on TOC specific liveries
However I do agree this policy needs to be applied to "save" these costs being passed on to customers

Equally, the East Coast fleet will need to be reliveried as there are now at least two different liveries in use
If the entire fleet is reliveried now (applying the new policy) then this cost will not be passed on as part of the next franchise period

 

[MCR247]

Would it put train companies off running TOCs if a decision was made that the DfT would just have a generic livery that TOCs put their logo on. IE InterCity operated by Virgin Trains

 

[Failed Unit]

Would it put train companies off running TOCs if a decision was made that the DfT would just have a generic livery that TOCs put their logo on. IE InterCity operated by Virgin Trains

Why would it? You could never tell by looking at the train that Central was ran by national express? In Scotland it is going to be exactly that, Scotrail operated by first. We will see if this puts people of bidding for the franchise, if it is ever operated. In some cases the parent group just wants to make money and distance itself from the TOC, which is probably why CT and XC were / are kept at arms length from the parents.

 

[A60K]

Would it put train companies off running TOCs if a decision was made that the DfT would just have a generic livery that TOCs put their logo on.

I don't think it would - the same happens with London Buses, and all the major groups are involved (apart from Stagecoach, but that's for more complex financial reasons than not being able to apply corporate livery).

 

[jon0844]

The best thing we could have would be a standard looking fleet with very little branding, as is the case elsewhere in the world and in London for buses and now Scotland for trains.

I also think that stations, signs and other things should be standardised too - like when it was BR - even if a private company is operating it under a license. They bid to get a franchise as normal, and have to meet certain targets (or be penalised if they don't) and make their profit on how efficient they are in doing so.

The current system does give us some nice liveries but it also creates the impression of a totally fragmented railway system (which I guess it is). And then we have the issue of ticketing and the dividing of revenue.... but that's not for this thread.

 

[starrymarkb]

And I think Stagecoach may have been proved right in their choice to sell up, the East London Bus Group is up for sale again as the new owners can't make it profitable.

Stagecoach like to grow their business though expansion, marketing and trying new things. Most of the other groups seem much more risk adverse (especially First)

Liveries are not always a problem for operators, look at Stagecoach Metrolink. They use GMPTE branding

 

[Z12XE]

Would it put train companies off running TOCs if a decision was made that the DfT would just have a generic livery that TOCs put their logo on.

The only thing that would put operators off is profit - or a lack of, you only have to look at the trains that NXEA put out which are brown with weeks worth of dirt, windows you can't see through and carrying several days of rubbish (I'm refering to the DMU fleet in particular) to see that corporate image and the sense of pride means sweet FA to them.

 

[rail-britain]

And I think Stagecoach may have been proved right in their choice to sell up, the East London Bus Group is up for sale again as the new owners can't make it profitable.

Stagecoach like to grow their business though expansion, marketing and trying new things. Most of the other groups seem much more risk adverse (especially First)

Stagecoach and First had a very close relationship in the 1990s (cough, before GRT merged with Badgerline to create First)
They have very different business approaches, but effectively the same aim
Stagecoach aim for an increase in annual turnover of 15% in each subsidiary company
Sometimes this requires "aggresive" tactics
First on the other hand prefer to discuss options with existing operators, often resulting in a monopoly, which results in a similar outcome
In the past where an operator refused to cooperate Stagecoach would suddenly appear as competition, then after several months leave the area, leaving First as the sole operator
However the operator wasn't always obviously part of Stagecoach, but quite often it would be the same vehicles!

 

[Crossforth]

Could area specific liveries be the start of a reform of a potential BR MK2??

 

[tbtc]

Stagecoach and First had a very close relationship in the 1990s (cough, before GRT merged with Badgerline to create First)
They have very different business approaches, but effectively the same aim
Stagecoach aim for an increase in annual turnover of 15% in each subsidiary company
Sometimes this requires "aggresive" tactics
First on the other hand prefer to discuss options with existing operators, often resulting in a monopoly, which results in a similar outcome
In the past where an operator refused to cooperate Stagecoach would suddenly appear as competition, then after several months leave the area, leaving First as the sole operator
However the operator wasn't always obviously part of Stagecoach, but quite often it would be the same vehicles!

Interesting conspiracy theory - would be interested to learn where Stagecoach were secretly operating buses like this (other than MagicBus - though its not a secret that MagicBus are part of Stagecoach)...

The two companies are certainly competing pretty fiercely in Sheffield, and have been for a few years, so if they are secretly helping each other out, I'd like to know...

 

[silentone]

The only thing that would put operators off is profit - or a lack of, you only have to look at the trains that NXEA put out which are brown with weeks worth of dirt, windows you can't see through and carrying several days of rubbish (I'm refering to the DMU fleet in particular) to see that corporate image and the sense of pride means sweet FA to them.

I think you have to look at how the parent company operates. East Coast are doing a pretty good job at keeping their HST's white, or whiter than NX did. It's amazing what a working washer and indeed a wash does!

 

[Vulcan]

Garter blue class 91, rest of the train clad in teak. 8) hell yeah

 

[W-on-Sea]

c2c generally keep their 357s that are in the new white livery pretty, even very clean (but obviously the colour still shows up dirt and stains far more blatantly than the old colour scheme did); the difference from the state of NXEA stock (of whatever type) in their new livery is extraordinary. Sure, the shape of the 357s (with bonded windows, plug doors, and basically flat sides) mean that they are more easily cleaned than, say, 321s...but still...it just looks a horrible unprofessional mess.

 

[rail-britain]

Interesting conspiracy theory - would be interested to learn where Stagecoach were secretly operating buses like this (other than MagicBus - though its not a secret that MagicBus are part of Stagecoach)...

The two companies are certainly competing pretty fiercely in Sheffield, and have been for a few years, so if they are secretly helping each other out, I'd like to know...

MAGICBUS was the original Glasgow brand that Stagecoach used when this service was established after Stagecoach Express in 1985 (with bus deregulation)
The name was sold to Kelvin Scottish for a period of 3 years in 1995, along with 9 buses (3 of which are still in operating with First Glasgow)

PM sent about the financial details
For operational reasons the "phantom operator" is usually quite easy to spot
Their vehicles will be white with no branding
However take the details of the operator plate and you will usually find Stagecoach is involved (either on the board of that company or directly)

Other phantom companies that Stagecoach have used are :
Perth Panther
ROGER
JOLLY ROGER
DEVON
FREE-BUS

The usual tactic now is to borrow vehicles from another subsidiary rather than from the "phantom fleet"
United Counties have several vehicles on their fleet, but they have certainly not been used on any services in that area!

The last major bus was in Inverness, using white vehicles
The tactic there was to replace all the existing routes, during the application process fares cannot be charged so all passengers were travelling for free, resulting in Highland (which had just been purchased by Rapsons of Inverness) withdrawing and almost going into administration
Fife also flooded routes to remove Moffat & Williamson from lucrative stage carriage routes

 

[The 158 Man]

Intercity Swallow for the win.