Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[hwl]

Has ABDO been discussed in this thread? Just wondering if somebody could explain the principles of its proposed operation.

Yes a couple of pages worth

 

[Ethano92]

Just out of interest, was 9 22/23m coaches not feasible on the SWR suburban network. Still brings you to a 200m train. I suppose loading guage may not have allowed it, or it would worsen problems about the gap at Vauxhall and Clapham junction.

 

[Goldfish62]

Just out of interest, was 9 22/23m coaches not feasible on the SWR suburban network. Still brings you to a 200m train. I suppose loading guage may not have allowed it, or it would worsen problems about the gap at Vauxhall and Clapham junction.

The tender specified max 20m coaches. I can only assume gauging issues.

 

[hwl]

The tender specified max 20m coaches. I can only assume gauging issues.

Correct, all the 3rd rail networks have gauging issues in the "metro" area that effectively limit car length to 20m.

22.4m as per Crossrail would have been cheaper.

 

[CNBRail]

Looks like it's to do with testing signal sighting and similar?

It was for carrying out windscreen wiper testing to verify the swept area.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Any word on whether this week’s delivery will go ahead?

 

[Goldfish62]

Any word on whether this week’s delivery will go ahead?

Is Derby still open or has it been shut down like the bus manufacturers?

 

[Domh245]

Production had been paused, but that doesn't necessarily mean that other activities aren't continuing. That said, I'd be surprised if anything was delivered this week

 

[norbitonflyer]

There are 23m length vehicles in 3rd rail territory - classes 159, 442 and 444 all work regularly into Waterloo, and HSTs and the Night Riviera have done so in the past. 442s have also worked on the Brighton Line. However, I suspect they are limited to a very few lines (London - Weymouth, London - Portsmouth, and diversionary routes such as via Chertsey/Richmond, and the Cobham New Line). I recall that something (suspension?) had to be modified on HSTs before they were allowed on the Basingstoke - Bournemouth route.

 

[swt_passenger]

There are 23m length vehicles in 3rd rail territory - classes 159, 442 and 444 all work regularly into Waterloo, and HSTs and the Night Riviera have done so in the past. 442s have also worked on the Brighton Line. However, I suspect they are limited to a very few lines (London - Weymouth, London - Portsmouth, and diversionary routes such as via Chertsey/Richmond, and the Cobham New Line). I recall that something (suspension?) had to be modified on HSTs before they were allowed on the Basingstoke - Bournemouth route.

Regarding HSTs you’re thinking of the carriage bogies, where they have to be fitted with short “swing links”; the long version could foul the conductor rail in extremis. But that fix doesn't get them a go anywhere pass into third rail territory, they still have just the same or similar 23m gauging restrictions as other stock as well. The other point about HSTs is that the power cars can have separate restrictions to the carriages.

 

[Domh245]

Of course, another factor with longer carriages is that they become narrower to retain the same gauge clearance - this would cause issues at stations like Clapham Junction and Vauxhall where there is already a fairly large gap to say the least! With the 345s one of the advantages of their length was that they were able to fit a third doorway into the coach, something that would spend half of the time locked out of use on these units because of the curvature at stations, and whilst they theoretically could have gone for an anglia style setup with long carriages but only 2 doorways that would be completely inappropriate for these services where platform dwell time is king - the anglian units are all about cramming seats into the train, the SWR units are all about getting people on(/off)

 

[CNBRail]

There are some interesting vids of 701501 making it's way back from Velim on the Meridian YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCQtLkk60lpqj7mN2OKgznw

 

[WWTownEnth]

There are some interesting vids of 701501 making it's way back from Velim on the Meridian YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCQtLkk60lpqj7mN2OKgznw

Thanks. I thought 001 was a 10 car though. Looks like I got that wrong....

 

[theironroad]

Thanks. I thought 001 was a 10 car though. Looks like I got that wrong....

Could the first 10 car be 701001 rather than 701501?

 

[43096]

Could the first 10 car be 701001 rather than 701501?

Yes - subclass 5 for 5-car!

 

[theironroad]

Yes - subclass 5 for 5-car!

Thanks. Sorta what I guessed, but wasn't sure.

 

[TEW]

There are 23m length vehicles in 3rd rail territory - classes 159, 442 and 444 all work regularly into Waterloo, and HSTs and the Night Riviera have done so in the past. 442s have also worked on the Brighton Line. However, I suspect they are limited to a very few lines (London - Weymouth, London - Portsmouth, and diversionary routes such as via Chertsey/Richmond, and the Cobham New Line). I recall that something (suspension?) had to be modified on HSTs before they were allowed on the Basingstoke - Bournemouth route.

The 444s do have limited route clearance on the Inner Suburban network, but I wonder how much of that is actual gauging issues, and how much is that there has simply never been a need for them to be cleared to Chessington for example. They are cleared via Chertsey and Richmond/Hounslow, via Cobham and via Epsom, which covers most diversionary routes.

 

[pompeyfan]

The 444s do have limited route clearance on the Inner Suburban network, but I wonder how much of that is actual gauging issues, and how much is that there has simply never been a need for them to be cleared to Chessington for example. They are cleared via Chertsey and Richmond/Hounslow, via Cobham and via Epsom, which covers most diversionary routes.

I believe via Epsom is not allowed to be planned, as there’s a restriction there where they can only do a really slow speed through the platform, so you don’t see them planned that way, but can be used as get out of jail card.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I believe via Epsom is not allowed to be planned, as there’s a restriction there where they can only do a really slow speed through the platform, so you don’t see them planned that way, but can be used as get out of jail card.

I've seen them many times when diversions have been sent this way though. My garden backs onto the line between Ewell West and Epsom. Having said that, this route hasn't been used much as a diversion in recent years.

 

[theironroad]

I've seen them many times when diversions have been sent this way though. My garden backs onto the line between Ewell West and Epsom. Having said that, this route hasn't been used much as a diversion in recent years.

I don't know if that is deliberately planned or just coincidence.

Via Chertsey or via the new line are the normal mainline diversion routes so maybe they just go for those first when doing the advance NR planning. The only time that via Epsom would be essential is if there was a all lines possession between say Surbiton and Woking .

Crew availability isn't really an issue either as the most of the crews who work the mainline diversions via the new line also sign via Epsom, Fratton being the exception.

 

[norbitonflyer]

There are some Portsmouth line workings, non-stop to Guildford, which are scheduled to use the "New Line", so it is not just diversions, and I've been on a 444 on such a service. We are getting a little away from 701s though.

 

[theironroad]

There are some Portsmouth line workings, non-stop to Guildford, which are scheduled to use the "New Line", so it is not just diversions, and I've been on a 444 on such a service. We are getting a little away from 701s though.

There are regular m-f workings in passenger service mainly in peaks for Fratton crews to maintain route knowledge.

 

[pompeyfan]

I think we’re getting confused (as well as away from the topic about 701s). To clarify, 444s cannot be booked via Epsom due to gauge restrictions (because they’re 23m stock ) through one of the platforms, they can however run via Epsom during unplanned diversions. Hope that clears it up. If not feel free to create a thread on 444s via Epsom.

 

[theironroad]

I think we’re getting confused (as well as away from the topic about 701s). To clarify, 444s cannot be booked via Epsom due to gauge restrictions (because they’re 23m stock ) through one of the platforms, they can however run via Epsom during unplanned diversions. Hope that clears it up. If not feel free to create a thread on 444s via Epsom.

Pages 12 & 14 of SWR's Route Availability (February 2018 edition) guide say that 444s are permitted from Raynes Park to Leatherhead and Leatherhead to Effingham Jnc respectively, both with no restrictions. Route availability covers gauging, so seems SWR/NR would disagree with your assessment.

 

[swt_passenger]

Pages 12 & 14 of SWR's Route Availability (February 2018 edition) guide say that 444s are permitted from Raynes Park to Leatherhead and Leatherhead to Effingham Jnc respectively, both with no restrictions. Route availability covers gauging, so seems SWR/NR would disagree with your assessment.

The public online sectional appendix has very few restrictions as well, I won’t list them but as you say via Epsom seems fine...

 

[yorkie]

Please can we stick to Class 701s in this thread.

The forum has plenty of spare capacity for separate threads to discuss other matters, such as class 444s

 

[CNBRail]

There is a good vid of the 701 being loaded onto trucks on the meridian generic rail youtube channel for those who have never seen it done before.

 

[Meerkat]

There is a good vid of the 701 being loaded onto trucks on the meridian generic rail youtube channel for those who have never seen it done before.

Seems a lot of bother compared to just towing it through the tunnel - are they not cleared for the UK yet?

 

[CNBRail]

Seems a lot of bother compared to just towing it through the tunnel - are they not cleared for the UK yet?

Not cleared through France unfortunately. It will fit but not enough time to sort the paperwork.

 

[Domh245]

Not to mention that sorting the paperwork for a single unit would be more complicated than just putting it on trucks.