First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Lizard1324]

Did it still have '17' on its branding from Bristol days? As long as it doesn't still read 'Southmead Hospital to Keynsham!'

I suppose it still has the vinyl unless they ripped them off

 

[83G/84D]

Did it still have '17' on its branding from Bristol days? As long as it doesn't still read 'Southmead Hospital to Keynsham!'

I suppose it still has the vinyl unless they ripped them off

See #10131 , 37012 has route branding removed. 37013 still had it earlier today.

 

[richw]

Lots of different Cornwall thoughts in this combined First Kernow and Go Cornwall ramble about the changes later this month, please forgive me for going on.

So – what is missing?
· We were promised buses Truro to Bodmin and Truro to Newquay Airport, which haven’t appeared yet.
· There is clearly supposed to be a GCB 93 from Truro to Newquay via St Columb Major, but this isn’t on Traveline yet.
· The only bus to Luxulyan (the FK 101) has been withdrawn from mid April – will anything replace it?
· Gorran Haven is a village of over 1,000 souls and has a community minibus giving a token service, but the only other service – the 471 – appears to be finishing at the end of March. I would have thought this village would expect more.

On the other hand we have a number of areas where the GCB tendered services have been duplicated in part by new FK services. Let’s look at these.
· The 47. FK have registered the service as now except between St Day and Truro, thus saving one bus. GCB have a full service, requiring 4 buses. Both companies show as running peaks and daytime. This can be solved by GCB just running between Redruth and Truro hourly, requiring only two buses. I can’t believe there is much traffic across Redruth as the route is so convoluted. So there may be two buses per hour between Redruth and St Day, probably unavoidable. Unless FK can be subsidised to extend to Truro again, but I guess this unthinkable.
· The 35. FK have registered an hourly service from Falmouth to Helford Passage, starting after the morning peak hour. OTS (as subcontractor to GCB) have an hourly service including the morning peak hour. The times are essentially the same, so I guess OTS can withdraw theirs except for the first round trip.
· The 56 / A5. Here FK have registered an hourly service but not starting until after the morning peak hour. To run the morning peak service as currently set out on the 56 before FK start GCB would still need three buses. One shuttling between Newquay and the Airport from 06.00 to 08.54, one for the 07.00 from Padstow to Newquay and one for the 06.40 from Newquay to Padstow. This will be ridiculously expensive – all while the FK open top buses sit in the depot. Again, unless FK can be subsidised to cover these journeys.
· The 25. GCB were asked to run to the existing timetable to provide a half hourly service between St Austell and Fowey alongside the FK 24. But this was crazy because each company’s bus would spend half an hour in Fowey. FK have changed their 24, so GCB need to change their 25. Not so simple as it interworks with the 58 at Newquay. But easily soluble – either by each journey both ways spending about 15 minutes waiting in St Austell or by splitting it in two. The half hour currently scheduled to sit in Fowey means this can be done without any extra resources.

Now to the 34 / 36 / L1. This is the most complicated.
· The 34 as specified by Cornwall and timetabled by GCB provides basically an hourly service from Redruth to Helston and the Lizard, with 4 vehicles all day. First have registered the L1 which adds another hourly service from Truro to Helston and the Lizard, but mainly between the peaks working around spare daytime resources at the Truro end. While this is in full swing you could reduce the 34 to be just Redruth to Helston hourly needing just two vehicles. Except the L1 does not serve Ruan Minor and Kuggar. So will Cornwall expect the 34 to continue to run hourly to cover these villages? Or perhaps two hourly? I can’t see how a shuttle service at the Lizard end would work. And then the L1 vanishes at school and peak times so you still need all four vehicles on the 34 anyway. Again perhaps you could consider subsidising FK to cover the gaps better, such as running via Ruan Minor, but if you did that then they would struggle to get a round trip in four hours - and clearly not the plan!
· On the 36 from Truro to Helston the GCB timetable provides peak and a 2 hourly daytime service, requiring two vehicles. The L1 would eliminate the need to run the service during the day but both buses are still needed in the peaks – not much saving here.
· Looking at the Lizard end of the proposed L1 timetable I am struggling to understand what is going on. One vehicle starts out at 08.46 from Ruan Minor, suggesting perhaps a school run either to Ruan Minor School or perhaps Mullion School. Then there are arrivals from 11.11 hourly to 14.11 with departures from 11.15 to 14.15, fine. Then another arrival at 15.11 which continues to Ruan Minor - this makes sense perhaps for the return school run. This could well be a Mullion School run of some sort as it then appears back to depart from the Lizard at 16.05. But there is also a 15.15 departure from the Lizard –where does this come from?
· If we end up with FK providing a daytime service to the Lizard and GCB in peaks and evenings, what happens with return tickets or day tickets for the few fare-paying passengers? Is there going to be any inter-availability?

FK’s enhancements to the 27 and U4 providing a three extra journeys on each between the peaks into the main shopping centres (Truro from St Austell and Penzance from Helston) are welcome. Another development shown on Traveline is that from 3 May it looks like FK are extending the U4 from Tremough to Falmouth hourly all day.

I have posted before about how the new FK registrations of previously subsidised routes are disruptors and could almost be designed to cause maximum upset to GCB and the council. The L1 especially so as, although it provides quite a service, it doesn’t allow any PVR reductions on the 34 or 36, as it only runs between the peaks, while throwing up issues for Cornwall to resolve on the Lizard part of the route. It will be interesting to see how this is tackled.

Assuming we are allowed to travel I definitely fancy a trip to Cornwall later this year to see what is going on!

there are numerous FK routes where a diversion made it subsidised rather than commercial. Without the subsidy, the commercial services will no longer service those places. A5 through St Mawgan was presumably a council requirement as the new A5 doesn’t serve the village, probably luxuylan too.

I’ve spoke to a manager contact at PCB and the 93 is being taken over by them, and running as per the FK times. He doesn’t know why it isn’t showing on the registrations and timetables on Traveline

 

[Lizard1324]

 

[Lizard1324]

 

[Lizard1324]

is that HIG 1528? trying to be fixed

 

[83G/84D]

37013 was in Camborne today:-

 

[Whiteway215]

See #10131 , 37012 has route branding removed. 37013 still had it earlier today.

Sorry I missed those pics.
Does Penzance have much in the way of maintenance facilities and is it still used to store open toppers and withdrawn buses?

 

[Lizard1324]

Sorry I missed those pics.
Does Penzance have much in the way of maintenance facilities and is it still used to store open toppers and withdrawn buses?

Not sure about maintaince but they keep the open toppers at penzance and the yellow school buses it's also used to refuel buses and park all store all the buses needed for west cornwall e.g. a17 tinner, U buses

 

[jammy36]

First have taken on 6 mullion school contracts so hugely likely it's designed around that

Indeed there was a tweet from Marc that indicated they'd specifically targeted (and won) those school bus tenders that would support their revised commercial network. A time honoured and well served approach.

There seems to be some suggestion that First have registered these commercial services as spoilers or in spite. I cannot see that being the intension - that wouldn't be commercially prudent.

I suspect is that what FK have done is looked at their operational data and identified those services that might not be commercially viable in their own right, but might be borderline and/or viable in combination with a school tender and/or through interworking with a college service. This gives them a good balance of shifts, vehicle utilisation and fixed and commercial income.

I understand the intention with the third round of school tenders is to look for similar synergies where they can build further commercial routes around schools work.

 

[Busaholic]

Not sure about maintaince but they keep the open toppers at penzance and the yellow school buses it's also used to refuel buses and park all store all the buses needed for west cornwall e.g. a17 tinner, U buses

I've a friend who uses buses a lot, but isn't otherwise interested in them: however, he has a weekly drinking session in a pub not too far from the depot, and among his drinking companions is a fitter from there. Knowing my interest, he feeds me titbits from time to time! Suffice to say there's more than enough work to keep the fitter and his colleagues busy throughout the year!

 

[richw]

I suspect is that what FK have done is looked at their operational data and identified those services that might not be commercially viable in their own right, but might be borderline

The ticketer machines I gather provide a lot of detailed analysis to help with identifying trends etc.
it wouldn’t surprise me if the 2 a day truro to padstow and 2 a day Wadebridge services that run fast Truro to st Columb major correspond to popular journey times between StC and Truro.

 

[Whiteway215]

I've a friend who uses buses a lot, but isn't otherwise interested in them: however, he has a weekly drinking session in a pub not too far from the depot, and among his drinking companions is a fitter from there. Knowing my interest, he feeds me titbits from time to time! Suffice to say there's more than enough work to keep the fitter and his colleagues busy throughout the year!

Not the Mexico Inn!!!

 

[Lizard1324]

The lizard peninsula is going to be very busy for first in the next few weeks with them needing 6 buses for mullion and 6 for helston and 4 for the 251,230,234 and 235 and the ones needed for the new l1 route which is probaly 4 so around 20 or so buses needed to be parked at flambards every night
( got a feeling first will run some buses together as one double decker e.g. mullion - ruen - lizard)

 

[fgwrich]

Did it still have '17' on its branding from Bristol days? As long as it doesn't still read 'Southmead Hospital to Keynsham!'

Just standard First Olympia 2 / Route 17 Base but without any of the branding. Looked a little scruffy but it's only temporary.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not the Mexico Inn!!!

Can't think of any others nearby!

 

[Busaholic]

Not the Mexico Inn!!!

Actually, no!

 

[MB162435]

Atlantic Coaster Solo 53253 on the 22:35 T1 service from Truro to Penzance this evening

 

[RELL6L]

There is a new route 23 sub contracted to Travel Cornwall to serve Gorran Haven

That's good, look forward to seeing that one.

They will have to factor in moving the bus for the layover as it can’t wait at safe harbour without obstructing either the road down towards the church next to the stop or the one behind.

Agreed, but surely they are not going to run this timetable, with a totally unnecessary 15/45 minute frequency between St Austell and Fowey. Or at least only until someone comes to their senses, just by pausing the GCB 25 for 15 minutes at St Austell, time to read the paper or have a Woodbine! Or split it, sub-contract the Fowey part to Travel Cornwall and work it in with the 23, 28 and 51.

First have taken on 6 mullion school contracts so hugely likely it's designed around that, there is also a l1 to the lizard from helston at 6:40

That explains some of it but the L1 daytime timetable is built around one bus starting and ending at Lizard, one at Helston and two at Truro, and whichever way you look at it the 15.15 from Lizard doesn't make sense, it's too early to be after a school contract. Perhaps the 15.15 should be non-schooldays and the 16.05 schooldays.

The lizard peninsula is going to be very busy for first in the next few weeks with them needing 6 buses for mullion and 6 for helston and 4 for the 251,230,234 and 235 and the ones needed for the new l1 route which is probaly 4 so around 20 or so buses needed to be parked at flambards every night
( got a feeling first will run some buses together as one double decker e.g. mullion - ruen - lizard)

No, the schoolday PVR for the proposed L1 is zero. Everything comes off something else, there's nothing in the peaks. That's why the Go Cornwall 34 still needs to run four buses in the peak hours to cover what Cornwall appear to want. I don't see how it can be as much as this - four for the college routes plus whatever is on school contracts, nothing else.

The ticketer machines I gather provide a lot of detailed analysis to help with identifying trends etc.
it wouldn’t surprise me if the 2 a day truro to padstow and 2 a day Wadebridge services that run fast Truro to st Columb major correspond to popular journey times between StC and Truro.

I doubt it, they look to be designed simply to find something to do for buses and drivers between college runs. Why would you leave Wadebridge at 11.00 to go to Truro for one hour there? Padstow slightly better, leaves at 10.35 and you get two hours in Truro. What could be more attractive is leave Truro 9.30, four hours in Padstow, leisurely lunch, back in Truro at 3.30. Would be great on a sunny day, perhaps in August - oh, no, you can't do it then, they only run on college days! Two shopping buses from St Columb Major to Truro at 10.56 and 11.26, returns at 1.00 and 1.30, no, I think the GCB 93 will win that market!

there are numerous FK routes where a diversion made it subsidised rather than commercial. Without the subsidy, the commercial services will no longer service those places. A5 through St Mawgan was presumably a council requirement as the new A5 doesn’t serve the village, probably luxuylan too.

Good point, I had forgotten the diversions through the incredibly tiny lanes of St Mawgan. With all of First's A5 running via the main (relatively!) road, will Cornwall insist on some GCB journeys retained via this route? I guess an open topper might be too high risk on the afternoon school run anyway and certainly via this route!

 

[TechDan2002]

23402 apparently on 234 this morning, very unusual for this route!

 

[Lizard1324]

20402 apparently on 234 this morning, very unusual for this route!

Which bus is 20402

 

[richw]

I guess an open topper might be too high risk on the afternoon school run anyway and certainly via this route!

The school run I believe is going closed door.

Why would you leave Wadebridge at 11.00 to go to Truro for one hour there? Padstow slightly better,

The StCM to Truro flow will be a known stat and the main use of these route. As a driver these flows correspond with what appears to be the busiest time through StCM at present

 

[Goldfish62]

Gemini 37012 is on the U4 this morning.

 

[TechDan2002]

Which bus is 20402

https://www.facebook.com/199649664262360/posts/520628472164476/?d=n

 

[Lizard1324]

https://www.facebook.com/199649664262360/posts/520628472164476/?d=n

It's likely they did use this bus as they had a shortage of buses at helston today due to a bus not working on the 251 so they probaly gave the 251 there bus and had to use this one as 234 is the last bus to leave the depot

 

[Goldfish62]

[Deleted]

 

[Blackpudding]

https://www.facebook.com/199649664262360/posts/520628472164476/?d=n

That's 23402

 

[TechDan2002]

37013 on Tinner duties.

 

[MB162435]

Kernow have now officially released the new timetables from the 29th March

Looks like the Summer timetable book will be extended from March 29th to the normal end date sometime in September

https://www.firstgroup.com/cornwall/routes-and-maps/bus-guides/bus-times-29-march

 

[Goldfish62]

Kernow have now officially released the new timetables from the 29th March

Looks like the Summer timetable book will be extended from March 29th to the normal end date sometime in September

https://www.firstgroup.com/cornwall/routes-and-maps/bus-guides/bus-times-29-march

I note no reference to the routes / journeys that will be operated by GCB. Not particularly helpful. Also the 2xx routes are included.