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First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

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richw

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10 Jun 2010
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11,528
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Liskeard
Good buses and driven by the go south coast drivers that are coming down they will be in fine hands.

except they are far too long for the routes won! The narrow windy roads, tight turns etc on most of the tendered routes makes anything longer than 10m unsuitable as other operators have found out and disposed longer buses from fleets.
 

Busaholic

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7 Jun 2014
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14,671
If Truro to St Austell, also connected half hourly by train, justifies a half hourly bus service, I'd have thought Penzance to Helston would justify the same, although numbering it U4 now kind of throws a small spanner in the works in a P.R. sense. The Penryn/Falmouth end was never as important!
Noticed they have done a similar thing on the U4, with a half hourly service between Helston and Penzance during the middle of the day, with the short Helston- Penzance services extended to Penwith College
Ah, but will the drivers actually allow passengers to board for Penwith College (and West Cornwall Hospital) after the bus station eg from Boots in Market Jew Street? It's been an issue in the past with the 3.15ish p.m. journey.
 

Dorsetbus

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Dorset
The ones in reserve or not in use
At go south coast were 2101 2001,2,3,4,5,8,9 and 10.

Surely its a case of beggars can't be choosy. Go south coast hasn't got a lot of short single deckers spare and obviously this is what they could send. I cant begin to guess the time frame for the 90 vehicles from adl but i would suppose that all of go ahead orders will be put back until this has been filled. Until then its going to be a rag tag fleet.
 

Accelerator59

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24 Oct 2014
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392
Location
Kernow
except they are far too long for the routes won! The narrow windy roads, tight turns etc on most of the tendered routes makes anything longer than 10m unsuitable as other operators have found out and disposed longer buses from fleets.
What about the Redruth - Newquay route? And which route would it take?
 

richw

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What about the Redruth - Newquay route? And which route would it take?

looks to run through blackwater, up to goonhavern and then into Newquay by the same route as the 87. Only tight turns on that route is caused by a traffic island on the junction from the Barrowfield hotel onto narrowcliff into Newquay and out of Newquay from Trenance into treloggan at the bottom
 

cnjb8

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26 Feb 2019
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2,305
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Nottingham
Surely its a case of beggars can't be choosy. Go south coast hasn't got a lot of short single deckers spare and obviously this is what they could send. I cant begin to guess the time frame for the 90 vehicles from adl but i would suppose that all of go ahead orders will be put back until this has been filled. Until then its going to be a rag tag fleet.
Guess they could be used on city services to transfer smaller buses to Cornwall
 

Goldfish62

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14 Feb 2010
Messages
13,241
If Truro to St Austell, also connected half hourly by train, justifies a half hourly bus service, I'd have thought Penzance to Helston would justify the same, although numbering it U4 now kind of throws a small spanner in the works in a P.R. sense. The Penryn/Falmouth end was never as important!

P.S. How prescient of me, apart from the spanner bit! Genuinely had no idea it was happening.
The short workings on the U4 are only a couple of return journeys. Not a consistent half hourly interpeak service by any stretch of the imagination.
 

Goldfish62

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14 Feb 2010
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13,241
The new timetables for majority of Kernow's and GCB's new services are on UK buses as well now

Noticed that Kernow's 27 service returns to Treliske Hospital after over 5 years, the 08:50 and 09:50 Carclaze to Truro services and the 11:15 St Austell to Truro service extend to the Trelawny Wing, returning at 12:47, 13:47 and 14:47 respectively

The 12:15 service is also extended to Truro College on college days only, departing at 12:42 to coincide with the busy college lunch time rush
Could you post a link to UK Buses? I've never heard of it.
 

carlberry

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19 Dec 2014
Messages
3,169
Could you post a link to UK Buses? I've never heard of it.
UK buses is a fleet list site.
https://ukbuses.co.uk/
As richw said it's not completely reliable (however few fleet list sites/books are, even official ones!).

I'm not aware they publish timetables, however bus times does.
https://bustimes.org/
These are the same as available on Traveline, however usually easier to read.
 

MB162435

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27 Aug 2017
Messages
1,262
Location
Penryn
UK buses is a fleet list site.
https://ukbuses.co.uk/
As richw said it's not completely reliable (however few fleet list sites/books are, even official ones!).

I'm not aware they publish timetables, however bus times does.
https://bustimes.org/
These are the same as available on Traveline, however usually easier to read.
Don't think UK buses do timetables , just me getting my websites mixed up!
 

83G/84D

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28 Oct 2011
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Cornwall
E400MMC 33301 on a T1 this morning and 32760 on a T2. T1/T2 services are on diversion this week due to road works at Roskear / Tuckingmill.
 

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Accelerator59

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Kernow
looks to run through blackwater, up to goonhavern and then into Newquay by the same route as the 87. Only tight turns on that route is caused by a traffic island on the junction from the Barrowfield hotel onto narrowcliff into Newquay and out of Newquay from Trenance into treloggan at the bottom
Would it run through Scorrier as well? Just thinking about that railway bridge near the caravan place. Would be alright for a single decker but could be risky for a double decker. And I know where you mean in Newquay, they are pretty tight turns.
 

richw

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Open top Gemini 37058 seen leaving Truro bus station at half 9 this morning

It’s on staff taxi runs

Would it run through Scorrier as well? Just thinking about that railway bridge near the caravan place. Would be alright for a single decker but could be risky for a double decker. And I know where you mean in Newquay, they are pretty tight turns.

I’ve taken deckers under that bridge, plenty of clearance, believe it’s 15’3 . Fk tallest deckers are the tridents at a mix of 14’6 and 14’10. The MMCs are 13’10. Megabus run under it every day on the M6 with their left hand drive Decker coaches.
 

83G/84D

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It’s on staff taxi runs



I’ve taken deckers under that bridge, plenty of clearance, believe it’s 15’3 . Fk tallest deckers are the tridents at a mix of 14’6 and 14’10. The MMCs are 13’10. Megabus run under it every day on the M6 with their left hand drive Decker coaches.

I saw 37058 heading east out of Truro yesterday lunchtime.
 
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Accelerator59

Member
Joined
24 Oct 2014
Messages
392
Location
Kernow
It’s on staff taxi runs



I’ve taken deckers under that bridge, plenty of clearance, believe it’s 15’3 . Fk tallest deckers are the tridents at a mix of 14’6 and 14’10. The MMCs are 13’10. Megabus run under it every day on the M6 with their left hand drive Decker coaches.
Crikey! Must be a pretty tight squeeze.
 

RELL6L

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Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
1,263
Lots of different Cornwall thoughts in this combined First Kernow and Go Cornwall ramble about the changes later this month, please forgive me for going on.

So – what is missing?
· We were promised buses Truro to Bodmin and Truro to Newquay Airport, which haven’t appeared yet.
· There is clearly supposed to be a GCB 93 from Truro to Newquay via St Columb Major, but this isn’t on Traveline yet.
· The only bus to Luxulyan (the FK 101) has been withdrawn from mid April – will anything replace it?
· Gorran Haven is a village of over 1,000 souls and has a community minibus giving a token service, but the only other service – the 471 – appears to be finishing at the end of March. I would have thought this village would expect more.

On the other hand we have a number of areas where the GCB tendered services have been duplicated in part by new FK services. Let’s look at these.
· The 47. FK have registered the service as now except between St Day and Truro, thus saving one bus. GCB have a full service, requiring 4 buses. Both companies show as running peaks and daytime. This can be solved by GCB just running between Redruth and Truro hourly, requiring only two buses. I can’t believe there is much traffic across Redruth as the route is so convoluted. So there may be two buses per hour between Redruth and St Day, probably unavoidable. Unless FK can be subsidised to extend to Truro again, but I guess this unthinkable.
· The 35. FK have registered an hourly service from Falmouth to Helford Passage, starting after the morning peak hour. OTS (as subcontractor to GCB) have an hourly service including the morning peak hour. The times are essentially the same, so I guess OTS can withdraw theirs except for the first round trip.
· The 56 / A5. Here FK have registered an hourly service but not starting until after the morning peak hour. To run the morning peak service as currently set out on the 56 before FK start GCB would still need three buses. One shuttling between Newquay and the Airport from 06.00 to 08.54, one for the 07.00 from Padstow to Newquay and one for the 06.40 from Newquay to Padstow. This will be ridiculously expensive – all while the FK open top buses sit in the depot. Again, unless FK can be subsidised to cover these journeys.
· The 25. GCB were asked to run to the existing timetable to provide a half hourly service between St Austell and Fowey alongside the FK 24. But this was crazy because each company’s bus would spend half an hour in Fowey. FK have changed their 24, so GCB need to change their 25. Not so simple as it interworks with the 58 at Newquay. But easily soluble – either by each journey both ways spending about 15 minutes waiting in St Austell or by splitting it in two. The half hour currently scheduled to sit in Fowey means this can be done without any extra resources.

Now to the 34 / 36 / L1. This is the most complicated.
· The 34 as specified by Cornwall and timetabled by GCB provides basically an hourly service from Redruth to Helston and the Lizard, with 4 vehicles all day. First have registered the L1 which adds another hourly service from Truro to Helston and the Lizard, but mainly between the peaks working around spare daytime resources at the Truro end. While this is in full swing you could reduce the 34 to be just Redruth to Helston hourly needing just two vehicles. Except the L1 does not serve Ruan Minor and Kuggar. So will Cornwall expect the 34 to continue to run hourly to cover these villages? Or perhaps two hourly? I can’t see how a shuttle service at the Lizard end would work. And then the L1 vanishes at school and peak times so you still need all four vehicles on the 34 anyway. Again perhaps you could consider subsidising FK to cover the gaps better, such as running via Ruan Minor, but if you did that then they would struggle to get a round trip in four hours - and clearly not the plan!
· On the 36 from Truro to Helston the GCB timetable provides peak and a 2 hourly daytime service, requiring two vehicles. The L1 would eliminate the need to run the service during the day but both buses are still needed in the peaks – not much saving here.
· Looking at the Lizard end of the proposed L1 timetable I am struggling to understand what is going on. One vehicle starts out at 08.46 from Ruan Minor, suggesting perhaps a school run either to Ruan Minor School or perhaps Mullion School. Then there are arrivals from 11.11 hourly to 14.11 with departures from 11.15 to 14.15, fine. Then another arrival at 15.11 which continues to Ruan Minor - this makes sense perhaps for the return school run. This could well be a Mullion School run of some sort as it then appears back to depart from the Lizard at 16.05. But there is also a 15.15 departure from the Lizard –where does this come from?
· If we end up with FK providing a daytime service to the Lizard and GCB in peaks and evenings, what happens with return tickets or day tickets for the few fare-paying passengers? Is there going to be any inter-availability?

FK’s enhancements to the 27 and U4 providing a three extra journeys on each between the peaks into the main shopping centres (Truro from St Austell and Penzance from Helston) are welcome. Another development shown on Traveline is that from 3 May it looks like FK are extending the U4 from Tremough to Falmouth hourly all day.

I have posted before about how the new FK registrations of previously subsidised routes are disruptors and could almost be designed to cause maximum upset to GCB and the council. The L1 especially so as, although it provides quite a service, it doesn’t allow any PVR reductions on the 34 or 36, as it only runs between the peaks, while throwing up issues for Cornwall to resolve on the Lizard part of the route. It will be interesting to see how this is tackled.

Assuming we are allowed to travel I definitely fancy a trip to Cornwall later this year to see what is going on!
 

Lizard1324

Member
Joined
19 Feb 2020
Messages
709
Location
Cornwall
Lots of different Cornwall thoughts in this combined First Kernow and Go Cornwall ramble about the changes later this month, please forgive me for going on.

So – what is missing?
· We were promised buses Truro to Bodmin and Truro to Newquay Airport, which haven’t appeared yet.
· There is clearly supposed to be a GCB 93 from Truro to Newquay via St Columb Major, but this isn’t on Traveline yet.
· The only bus to Luxulyan (the FK 101) has been withdrawn from mid April – will anything replace it?
· Gorran Haven is a village of over 1,000 souls and has a community minibus giving a token service, but the only other service – the 471 – appears to be finishing at the end of March. I would have thought this village would expect more.

On the other hand we have a number of areas where the GCB tendered services have been duplicated in part by new FK services. Let’s look at these.
· The 47. FK have registered the service as now except between St Day and Truro, thus saving one bus. GCB have a full service, requiring 4 buses. Both companies show as running peaks and daytime. This can be solved by GCB just running between Redruth and Truro hourly, requiring only two buses. I can’t believe there is much traffic across Redruth as the route is so convoluted. So there may be two buses per hour between Redruth and St Day, probably unavoidable. Unless FK can be subsidised to extend to Truro again, but I guess this unthinkable.
· The 35. FK have registered an hourly service from Falmouth to Helford Passage, starting after the morning peak hour. OTS (as subcontractor to GCB) have an hourly service including the morning peak hour. The times are essentially the same, so I guess OTS can withdraw theirs except for the first round trip.
· The 56 / A5. Here FK have registered an hourly service but not starting until after the morning peak hour. To run the morning peak service as currently set out on the 56 before FK start GCB would still need three buses. One shuttling between Newquay and the Airport from 06.00 to 08.54, one for the 07.00 from Padstow to Newquay and one for the 06.40 from Newquay to Padstow. This will be ridiculously expensive – all while the FK open top buses sit in the depot. Again, unless FK can be subsidised to cover these journeys.
· The 25. GCB were asked to run to the existing timetable to provide a half hourly service between St Austell and Fowey alongside the FK 24. But this was crazy because each company’s bus would spend half an hour in Fowey. FK have changed their 24, so GCB need to change their 25. Not so simple as it interworks with the 58 at Newquay. But easily soluble – either by each journey both ways spending about 15 minutes waiting in St Austell or by splitting it in two. The half hour currently scheduled to sit in Fowey means this can be done without any extra resources.

Now to the 34 / 36 / L1. This is the most complicated.
· The 34 as specified by Cornwall and timetabled by GCB provides basically an hourly service from Redruth to Helston and the Lizard, with 4 vehicles all day. First have registered the L1 which adds another hourly service from Truro to Helston and the Lizard, but mainly between the peaks working around spare daytime resources at the Truro end. While this is in full swing you could reduce the 34 to be just Redruth to Helston hourly needing just two vehicles. Except the L1 does not serve Ruan Minor and Kuggar. So will Cornwall expect the 34 to continue to run hourly to cover these villages? Or perhaps two hourly? I can’t see how a shuttle service at the Lizard end would work. And then the L1 vanishes at school and peak times so you still need all four vehicles on the 34 anyway. Again perhaps you could consider subsidising FK to cover the gaps better, such as running via Ruan Minor, but if you did that then they would struggle to get a round trip in four hours - and clearly not the plan!
· On the 36 from Truro to Helston the GCB timetable provides peak and a 2 hourly daytime service, requiring two vehicles. The L1 would eliminate the need to run the service during the day but both buses are still needed in the peaks – not much saving here.
· Looking at the Lizard end of the proposed L1 timetable I am struggling to understand what is going on. One vehicle starts out at 08.46 from Ruan Minor, suggesting perhaps a school run either to Ruan Minor School or perhaps Mullion School. Then there are arrivals from 11.11 hourly to 14.11 with departures from 11.15 to 14.15, fine. Then another arrival at 15.11 which continues to Ruan Minor - this makes sense perhaps for the return school run. This could well be a Mullion School run of some sort as it then appears back to depart from the Lizard at 16.05. But there is also a 15.15 departure from the Lizard –where does this come from?
· If we end up with FK providing a daytime service to the Lizard and GCB in peaks and evenings, what happens with return tickets or day tickets for the few fare-paying passengers? Is there going to be any inter-availability?

FK’s enhancements to the 27 and U4 providing a three extra journeys on each between the peaks into the main shopping centres (Truro from St Austell and Penzance from Helston) are welcome. Another development shown on Traveline is that from 3 May it looks like FK are extending the U4 from Tremough to Falmouth hourly all day.

I have posted before about how the new FK registrations of previously subsidised routes are disruptors and could almost be designed to cause maximum upset to GCB and the council. The L1 especially so as, although it provides quite a service, it doesn’t allow any PVR reductions on the 34 or 36, as it only runs between the peaks, while throwing up issues for Cornwall to resolve on the Lizard part of the route. It will be interesting to see how this is tackled.

Assuming we are allowed to travel I definitely fancy a trip to Cornwall later this year to see what is going on!
First have taken on 6 mullion school contracts so hugely likely it's designed around that, there is also a l1 to the lizard from helston at 6:40
 

richw

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Gorran Haven is a village of over 1,000 souls and has a community minibus giving a token service, but the only other service – the 471 – appears to be finishing at the end of March. I would have thought this village would expect more.
There is a new route 23 sub contracted to Travel Cornwall to serve Gorran Haven

The 25. GCB were asked to run to the existing timetable to provide a half hourly service between St Austell and Fowey alongside the FK 24. But this was crazy because each company’s bus would spend half an hour in Fowey. FK have changed their 24, so GCB need to change their 25
They will have to factor in moving the bus for the layover as it can’t wait at safe harbour without obstructing either the road down towards the church next to the stop or the one behind.
 

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