Ex Virgin Trains Voyagers, where could they go next?

[VT 390]

Hourly. There won't be much demand for doubling up alongside an all day 2tph Avanti service. 6 units rostered and 2 spare would be enough.

I am surprised that Grand Central have signed contracts to use Mark IV sets until December 2026 rather than use them until Voyagers start to go off lease.

I thought the Virgin service would be instead of the second Avanti service if it does happen?

I think it is better for Grand Central to use the Mark 4's and a 90 as the whole route is electrified.

 

[greatvoyager]

I thought the Virgin service would be instead of the second Avanti service if it does happen?

I think it is better for Grand Central to use the Mark 4's and a 90 as the whole route is electrified.

I thought that was the idea.

 

[DavidGrain]

I am surprised that Grand Central have signed contracts to use Mark IV sets until December 2026 rather than use them until Voyagers start to go off lease.

A fixed term lease might have been the best deal from the leasing company. Also the date that the Voyagers become available will depend on delivery dates of the new trains being met. Look at the TPE trains now running in LNR livery because TPE have had to keep them on a sub-lease.

 

[Chester1]

A fixed term lease might have been the best deal from the leasing company. Also the date that the Voyagers become available will depend on delivery dates of the new trains being met. Look at the TPE trains now running in LNR livery because TPE have had to keep them on a sub-lease.

It does make things simpler and they probably got a very good price for leasing stock that would otherwise be stored or scrapped. Its interesting to see the different approach. I guess part of it is Virgin Trains long association with tilting trains and therefore part of the choice will be about branding. Old Mark IVs wouldn't really fit their image or give the impression that its the return of the old ToC.

 

[greatvoyager]

It does make things simpler and they probably got a very good price for leasing stock that would otherwise be stored or scrapped. Its interesting to see the different approach. I guess part of it is Virgin Trains long association with tilting trains and therefore part of the choice will be about branding. Old Mark IVs wouldn't really fit their image or give the impression that its the return of the old ToC.

Not to mention that there is less demand for the MK4 stock, and the ex West Coast voyagers are in demand for both XC and Virgin's open access to Liverpool.

 

[greatvoyager]

I'll be interested to see if the Avanti Voyagers stay beyond December 2022 to cover for any delays.

 

[Energy]

I'll be interested to see if the Avanti Voyagers stay beyond December 2022 to cover for any delays.

Depends if someone leases them, if somebody got the lease before Avanti (like XC or Virgin Open Access) then either no or some.

 

[greatvoyager]

Depends if someone leases them, if somebody got the lease before Avanti (like XC or Virgin Open Access) then either no or some.

Very true.

 

[greatvoyager]

Depends if someone leases them, if somebody got the lease before Avanti (like XC or Virgin Open Access) then either no or some.

I just hope in will avoid some of the chaos seen with other replacement stock being late.

 

[greatvoyager]

A fixed term lease might have been the best deal from the leasing company. Also the date that the Voyagers become available will depend on delivery dates of the new trains being met. Look at the TPE trains now running in LNR livery because TPE have had to keep them on a sub-lease.

Perhaps Avanti will end up having to sub-lease some back for a few months after.

 

[greatvoyager]

Depends if someone leases them, if somebody got the lease before Avanti (like XC or Virgin Open Access) then either no or some.

Those seem to be the two most likely options.

 

[greatvoyager]

Deleted

 

[greatvoyager]

If they do move to another operator, will they remain at Central Rivers TMD?

 

[LOL The Irony]

If they do move to another operator, will they remain at Central Rivers TMD?

As long as they operate near Central Rivers (rules out Northern), yes.

 

[greatvoyager]

As long as they operate near Central Rivers (rules out Northern), yes.

That makes sense.

 

[DavidGrain]

If they do move to another operator, will they remain at Central Rivers TMD?

It took me a few moments to think where Central Rivers was then realised it was Barton-under-Needwood.

 

[greatvoyager]

It took me a few moments to think where Central Rivers was then realised it was Barton-under-Needwood.

I believe the site was originally chosen as it was in a central location for XC services.

 

[DavidGrain]

I believe the site was originally chosen as it was in a central location for XC services.

And not very far from WCML either. RTT shows a whole list of early morning ECS trains leaving Barton under Needwood for both 'VT' and XC

 

[greatvoyager]

And not very far from WCML either. RTT shows a whole list of early morning ECS trains leaving Barton under Needwood for both 'VT' and XC

True, makes sense as VT used to run XC too.

 

[greatvoyager]

And not very far from WCML either. RTT shows a whole list of early morning ECS trains leaving Barton under Needwood for both 'VT' and XC

It is the perfect location really, and I expect unless something radical happens, the units will still be maintained there.

 

[greatvoyager]

Now that the Virgin open access application has been withdrawn, I'm not sure where else they can go other than XC.

 

[VT 390]

Now that the Virgin open access application has been withdrawn, I'm not sure where else they can go other than XC.

Yes, in a way it is actually good that the open access proposal was cancelled as XC needs the extra capacity more.

 

[Mogz]

I hope it’s XC with no internal refit.

A whole standard class carriage of table seats for those who prefer them and a proper buffet would be a boon for us XC victims!

 

[VT 390]

I hope it’s XC with no internal refit.

A whole standard class carriage of table seats for those who prefer them and a proper buffet would be a boon for us XC victims!

I think it would depend on how long they are going to keep Voyager's or not that will decide if they will have a refit inside. Though I don't see XC operating the shop even if they do keep it as all there other services are trolleys.

 

[greatvoyager]

Yes, in a way it is actually good that the open access proposal was cancelled as XC needs the extra capacity more.

Exactly what I thought too.

 

[Whistler40145]

Surely it's far more sensible for the 221s to be operated by XC, services could be improved.

Double Voyager

In some cases, would it be possible to insert carriages into existing sets?

 

[greatvoyager]

Surely it's far more sensible for the 221s to be operated by XC, services could be improved.

Double Voyager

In some cases, would it be possible to insert carriages into existing sets?

Double Voyager workings would be an improvement.
It might be possible to insert extra carriages from other units, but I think it'll depend on the requirements of service to be provided, and whether there is a need for splitting of double units at certain points on routes, i.e. Edinburgh, Plymouth, Reading, in which case more units would be required to stay as they are.

 

[VT 390]

Surely it's far more sensible for the 221s to be operated by XC, services could be improved.

Double Voyager

In some cases, would it be possible to insert carriages into existing sets?

Definitely agree ll 221's should go to XC.
What would be the benefit of switching carriages between sets as you would have the same amount of carriages overall?

 

[greatvoyager]

Definitely agree ll 221's should go to XC.
What would be the benefit of switching carriages between sets as you would have the same amount of carriages overall?

I hope all 221s go to XC, but who knows.

 

[Whistler40145]

Platform lengths have to be considered