Staff: the best & worst

[CarterUSM]

Bottom line is, there are good, indeed great, people in all walks of life, similarly there are yahoos also.

 

[Daniel]

At the end of the day, what most enthusiasts don't seem to understand is that, even if I come and ask what you're doing, I'm not having a go.
Last week, after work, I was taking some photographs at an LU station, (in uniform), and heard the PA: "Would the member of staff taking photos please come to the control room".
It's not that staff see people as terrorists, it's not that we really care, but we all have a job to do - ensuring your safety, and that you're aware of the rules - re tripods etc.

However, if I come over to you in a friendly manner, ask you why you're there, simply expecting you to say "I'm doing non-commercial photography" (which would get the response "lovely, thanks, have fun!"), and, instead, you tell the to foxtrot oscar, you won't be on my station very long.

Equally, you do get staff who are, frankly, recdiculous in my opinion. There are plenty of recent examples around of contractors and even TOC staff blatently accusing genuine enthusiasts, (doing nothing wrong), of being terrorists.

You just have to look at both sides of the story.

When I was just an enthusiast, I still appreciated that most staff were quite friendly; but there were always those few.

Now that I'm (some form of) rail staff, it's still the same way; but I now understand why those who are 'just friendly' need to ask what you're doing and why you're there, even when it's painstakingly obvious.

 

[Failed Unit]

Bottom line is, there are good, indeed great, people in all walks of life, similarly there are yahoos also.

Sums it up perfectly. Even the same member of staff my be wonderful one day and abrupt the following. It is human nature if you are having a **** day which we all get then you are not going to be all smiles. I can't say any TOC better or worse. I must admit that when revenue protection is sub-contracted out to goons-r-us it can backfire on the brand. If the goon is rude people assume they are employed by the TOC but there is little the TOC can do about it. The goon does not really care about damaging the brand, you get the same problem at outsourced receptions.

Next question based on the grumpy checkout staff which is the best and worse supermarket.

 

[mallard]

However, you get the odd few who walk off the end of the platform and get angry when you point out to them that they shouldn't be there, and that the big red sign with "No entry except to authorised staff" actually means that.

While not defending this sort of behavior, I have noticed that some preserved railways do put up signs and notices (including sometimes warning signs) which are clearly just for show. While this enhances the atmosphere and is clearly a good thing, it may cause real warning signs to be less obvious especially if an antique sign is used as a real warning (particularly if it includes anachronisms such as fines in shillings or the name of the LNER general secretary).

Of course common sense must be used and enthusiasts must be polite to the staff, but warning signs may sometimes be less obvious to the enthusiast than the intention and having a staff member say "it's clearly written on this sign!" may occasionally cause undue difficulties.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Yes, most railways do put up signs like that. We have them as well.However, at my station they are clearly a different style - large, red and say:
"(Railway Name)
No persons must cross this point unless authorised" - or something like that, across a barrier which they move to get access to areas.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Of course common sense must be used and enthusiasts must be polite to the staff, but warning signs may sometimes be less obvious to the enthusiast than the intention and having a staff member say "it's clearly written on this sign!" may occasionally cause undue difficulties.

Yes, that would be a little rude. I would address them as sir, and ask them politely to come back onto the platform. If they apologised, that's fine. If they argue, I will point out that there is a sign and a barrier, and point out the safety issues. If they still argue I will just say that it is not allowed and they shouldn't have done it. Then, I will refer time to my superior and ask if they would like to make a complaint and get the forms for that. It's never got that far luckily, but no doubt sometime it will.

 

[thefab444]

the opinion of you that I've gained from your posts has been nothing but positive.

What posts by Bittern are you reading, the ones I read are nearly always nothing but negative or downright rude! And that's not just in this thread either.


Going back to staff, the majority of them are fine and decent chaps, but there's always the odd jobsworth. Sometimes it's down to a lack of training (e.g. about ticket restrictions), others are just going out of their way to cause hassle.

 

[RPM]

The managers seem nice, but there on a big chunky wage so they will.

Don't you believe it! Most salaries for railway junior/middle managers are lousy compared to other industries. My salary nearly doubled when I went from being a station manager to being a driver.

 

[313103]

I see what your saying but us enthusiasts don't just pick on staff as opposed to they pick on us, and fair enough I know what they go through and how hard the job is but enthusiasts are not dangerous (well .. some are) but staff should stop picking on people who love their hobby .. aslong as enthusiasts are following the rules, sure they shouldn't be picked on?

So enlighten me as an idiot what do you deem as picking on?

Actually to be honest i would like to know what is your beef with Northern Rail staff?
Have you had issues with these staff because you may have caught out a couple of times doing something that you shouldn't really be doing?

have you seen the you tube and nationwide exposed footage of an enthusiast nearly having his life taken away because he was filming where he shouldn't have been? Now if a member of staff had told him to get back onto the platform so you don't get killed or seriously injured would that be regarded as another member of jobsworth staff idiot picking on the humble train enthusiasts?

I was once a train enthusiast and went around the country taking photos , numbers etc, but as a member of staff i was always aware of the dangers that i could come across and if a member of staff told me i shouldn't be there or don't go there i did as i was told and went somewhere else.

As a previous poster has mentioned it shouldn't be about them and us, i am quite happy to engage with rail enthusiasts and give them information about whereabouts of trains and the such like and tell them things about the new trains and so on and so on, it is when they totally ignore signs in order to say get a picture that gets your back up, that is when i will remind them of there own responsibilities.

As an aside i sometimes volunteer to work on a preserved railway line in West Wales, so even though i dont chase the latest class 66 in yet another garish livery i still have an interest.

 

[Greenback]

Staff bashing is bad, but so is enthusiast bashing. I expect the vast majority of staff and enthusiasts are perfectly fine people who know their responsibilites and stick to them. Sadly in both cases it's the small minority that spoil it for the rest. For a start an enthusiast who does nothing wrong and staff who don't bother them generally don't get noticed. From an enthusiast point of view when you get home after a trip you don't remember the large number of staff who gave you no trouble, you remember the one who did (you also remember those who were particularly nice or helpful, but those situations arn't that common either). Same with staff, after a days work you don't remember the many enthusiasts who went about their business without causing any problems, you remember the one who you have to deal with as they are doing something wrong.

What I think is sad is how often it turns into a them and us situation where staff will defend staff and bash enthusiasts and enthusiasts will bash staff and defend enthusiasts. "There are two sides to every story" will often be heard, which often means "I don't want to believe one of my own is wrong so I'm going to make up excuses for them". I often think the world would be better is people were quicker to condem those who give them a bad name instead of jumping to their defense all the time. It's far from just rail staff vs. enthusiasts where this occurs though, in fact it's common throughout life and has even caused wars and cost millions of lives (it's a big factor in racism, religious tensions, sexism, ageism, actually any 'ism).

I thoroughly agree. I have tried to stay out of this thread - I knew when I aw the title exactly how it would pan out!

I see what your saying but us enthusiasts don't just pick on staff as opposed to they pick on us, and fair enough I know what they go through and how hard the job is but enthusiasts are not dangerous (well .. some are) but staff should stop picking on people who love their hobby .. aslong as enthusiasts are following the rules, sure they shouldn't be picked on?

I can't keep quiet any longer! Lee, you obviously don't know what he is saying! From your posts you clearly have major issues with Northern, the reasons for which I can only guess. In my experience rail staff are genrally very pleasant, but there can be one or two that seem a bit short. This hardly surprising considering the safety responsibilities most front line staff have, and the amount of people they have to do deal with, particularly at busier stations where many enthusiasts like to go.

It's a sad fact in life that if you go somewhere with a pre conceived idea, you will often cause it to happen - ie you may come across as defensive, suspicious, negative or obstructive yourself if you believe that all rail staff pick on enthusiasts. You may need to look critically at your own behaviour if you continue to be hassled by every member of staff that you meet on the front line.

Next question based on the grumpy checkout staff which is the best and worse supermarket.

Or what about nightclub door staff? Pub staff? or anywhere else that has to deal with the public?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

funny you mention this as I had a run in with an enthusiast today.

I was at the barrier doing a check when I spot a man walking on the far side of the ramps and round the back towards the train. Being revenue its my job to make sure everyone boarding the train has a ticket. I caught up with the man to ask him where he was going, the blunt reply I got from was "why do you f-ing staff always bother me, I aint doing any harm".
To cut a long story short the man effectively cut his spotting day short by getting himself escorted from the station by the BTP.

Whilst this is the worst I've ever experienced from an enthusiast, I'd say one in three who visit the station actively avoid staff and thus i dont know what they are there for. Alarm bells dont scream terrorist but sometimes ring fare dodger, its unnecessary and is easily avoided.

I have NEVER denied any enthusiast who approached me stating their intentions, plus it has the added bonus of the enthusiast going about their hobby hassle free and I'm aware of what's going on on my platforms.

Some trainspotters can be like that unfortunately... like you say you were just doing your job. Mind me asking where this was.

 

[Mojo]

Next question based on the grumpy checkout staff which is the best and worse supermarket.

Tesco and Sainsburys are as bad as each other. "Unexpected item in bagging area, please remove this item..." aaargh

 

[leewoods60019]

So enlighten me as an idiot what do you deem as picking on?

Actually to be honest i would like to know what is your beef with Northern Rail staff?
Have you had issues with these staff because you may have caught out a couple of times doing something that you shouldn't really be doing?

have you seen the you tube and nationwide exposed footage of an enthusiast nearly having his life taken away because he was filming where he shouldn't have been? Now if a member of staff had told him to get back onto the platform so you don't get killed or seriously injured would that be regarded as another member of jobsworth staff idiot picking on the humble train enthusiasts?

I was once a train enthusiast and went around the country taking photos , numbers etc, but as a member of staff i was always aware of the dangers that i could come across and if a member of staff told me i shouldn't be there or don't go there i did as i was told and went somewhere else.

As a previous poster has mentioned it shouldn't be about them and us, i am quite happy to engage with rail enthusiasts and give them information about whereabouts of trains and the such like and tell them things about the new trains and so on and so on, it is when they totally ignore signs in order to say get a picture that gets your back up, that is when i will remind them of there own responsibilities.

As an aside i sometimes volunteer to work on a preserved railway line in West Wales, so even though i dont chase the latest class 66 in yet another garish livery i still have an interest.

I am civilised in all of my trips, and I don't always get Northern Staff saying stuff to me but I have the odd time but quite rarely, I just think when I'm not on Northern Territory I am perfectly fine! I don't go on Northern territory much nowadays anyway - bad expirence with them. And my behaviour is not suspicious at all, pointing a camera at a train isn't exactly suspicious, maybe northern rail could just be overprotective or something

 

[Ticket Man]

Some trainspotters can be like that unfortunately... like you say you were just doing your job. Mind me asking where this was.

The big grey box known as euston, why it wasn't you was it????

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The big grey box known as euston, why it wasn't you was it????

Nah mate, not my style. The ML plats or the 8-11 local gated platforms? Just wondering

 

[Ticket Man]

Nah mate, not my style. The ML plats or the 8-11 local gated platforms? Just wondering

i was on 15 when i spotted plucky walking down 12

 

[MidnightFlyer]

i was on 15 when i spotted plucky walking down 12

fair enough, did you really have to get the BTP to chuck him off... mind you they do nothing else all day, so they probably do anything a the smallest possible opertunity.

 

[leewoods60019]

I traveled on Grand Central today, certainly all operators should inspire like them! really trained in dealing with customers!

 

[Ticket Man]

fair enough, did you really have to get the BTP to chuck him off... mind you they do nothing else all day, so they probably do anything a the smallest possible opertunity.

f-ing staff wasn't the only insult the was sent my way, when I explained that i merely wanted to know what his business was on the station i was told to "get a f-ing life and mind my own f-ing business"

F-ing was defiantly the word of the day

 

[ChrisCooper]

When it comes to hostile attitudes towards staff from enthusiasts, I think the minority of idiots (on the staff side) who don't know the rules or don't care are largely to blaim there. I have to admit in any situation where I'm approached by staff whilst photographing I will tend to be on edge and expecting trouble, as sadly most of the time from experiance there is trouble. I'm not suggesting trouble is common, it's rare, but then so is any interaction with staff. Last time I was in London photographing just a single staff member actually spoke to me (an LU driver telling me about Sarah Siddons being out), and that is pretty normal.

Acutally I can only think of 4 times in recent years I've been photographing and had interaction with staff that hasn't been "no photography" or similar (only counting times staff have approached me, not times when I've approached them), ironically only one being a check what I was doing and an accurate quote of the guidelines (i.e if you're going to be here for a long time we like you to sign in, but if you're only here for a short time don't bother). Naturally that means that the times when there are problems stand out. I'm not saying I would be deliberatly rude to staff, but sometimes it's easy to come across as hostile when you're thinking "oh god, here we go again, someone else who is going to be making up none existant rules", even if it's just body language. Of cource were staff to interect with enthusiasts more then it would also go along way to solving the problem as the majority of positive occasions would outweight the negative, so maybe the staff who just can't be bothered are as much at fault. Actually I think that is an interesting point, if staff who come and question enthusiasts about their activities are just doing their jobs, are those who don't (which to be honest is the majority) therefore not doing there jobs?

On the subject of preserved railways, I don't know about anyone else but from my experiance some of the worst offenders can be actual rail staff, and sometimes staff from other preserved railways. A combination of a few beers plus the "I work for the real railways so your toy railway rules don't bother me" is often a factor. Sadly again it can be a bit of a misleading thing as those sort will often be the most loud when it comes to letting everyone else know that they do work for the railways, and a fair number will be wearing a hi-vis with their company logo on it. Of cource what makes it worse is that they should know better.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Personally from the staff side of things, if you're doing something you shouldn't be - i'll have a go at you, if you've got your tripod right on the edge of the platform - expect me to have a go at you, if you're in an area you shouldn't be, expect me to have a go at you. Other than that I couldn't care less what you're doing - another thing I can't stand is enthusiasts running up the platform to see a freight or something when I'm trying to concentrate... in the past I've seen a dozen enthusiasts run to the front of the train I'm dispatching only to find a freight is going past... but from a distance to me looks like something seriously wrong has happened. I've nothing against enthusiasts, you're entitled to your hobby... just don't have a whinge when someone confronts you if you know you're doing wrong... it's the minority who spoil it for the rest of you who abide by the rules. The vast majority of enthusiasts are fine, I'll even have a chat to you if it's not completely mind numbing to me/i'm not busy

 

[Geezertronic]

I've had no problems with VT staff when travelling in First or Standard. You do get the odd TM who brightens up your day by mentioning the odd funny fact or birthday ove rthe tannoy on the approach to Euston - nothing wrong with it, just harmless fun.

Some of the TMs do sound a bit threatening when stating over the tannoy the type of tickets that are allowed or not

 

[Aictos]

Personally from the staff side of things, if you're doing something you shouldn't be - i'll have a go at you, if you've got your tripod right on the edge of the platform - expect me to have a go at you, if you're in an area you shouldn't be, expect me to have a go at you. Other than that I couldn't care less what you're doing - another thing I can't stand is enthusiasts running up the platform to see a freight or something when I'm trying to concentrate... in the past I've seen a dozen enthusiasts run to the front of the train I'm dispatching only to find a freight is going past... but from a distance to me looks like something seriously wrong has happened. I've nothing against enthusiasts, you're entitled to your hobby... just don't have a whinge when someone confronts you if you know you're doing wrong... it's the minority who spoil it for the rest of you who abide by the rules. The vast majority of enthusiasts are fine, I'll even have a chat to you if it's not completely mind numbing to me/i'm not busy

I quite agree, well said.

 

[jon0844]

Actually I think that is an interesting point, if staff who come and question enthusiasts about their activities are just doing their jobs, are those who don't (which to be honest is the majority) therefore not doing there jobs?

Good point. A few weeks back at Finsbury Park, there were some staff on dispatch (not the usual staff I've ever seen there before) who were looking at someone standing quite far down platform 1 near the edge.

Now, you've got some staff who will go and hassle an enthusiast and make up rules - but these people were talking non-stop about this person (more concerned he might jump) but never did anything at all. I think they were just going to wait and see. As it happened, he didn't jump and boarded the train on the rear carriage, after having to walk back towards everyone else. Seems he'd simply misjudged the length of the train or where it would stop.

It is a little odd how someone may rush to approach someone with a camera but can't summon up the courage to check on someone that, even to me, looked a little odd or suspicious. I wonder what would have happened if he'd pulled out a camera.

 

[9K43]

As far as I'm aware, the guard is responsible for issuing tickets, dealing with customer issues (such as providing assistance to disabled passengers) as well as operating the doors and dispatching his train from the platfrom. In an acident he is to ensure of the safety of his train (and its passengers) and the safety of other trains in the area by informing control and taking apropriate warning measures (detonators and such like).

The driver is responsible for, checking the unit is safe to operate prior to starting a service. Then he is responsible driving the train from A-B whilst observing the signals and speed restrictions of the line the train is operating over. In an incident his responsibilitys are similar to the guards, ensuring the safety of his train and others on the line.

Dispatchers are responsible for the safe arrival and depature of trains from the station, as well as answering questions the public may have on when the next train is and such like.

RPI's are responsible for issuing tickets, and checking that passengers have valid tickets with them before boarding any service as well as answering questions on about when trains are and so on.

Thats what I see as the surface of employees roles I am sure that I have missed much and got it in the wrong order of priority for some. But you asked a non-railway person to answer, so I'm not going to know everything there is to know.

Unless the train is in DOO, then the guard where provided is in charge of the train, and will give the driver such instructions as he needs to work the train.
I have 27 years service a a guard, and I find that some trainspotters are tolerated and some are are a liability to themselves and others.
The traincrew are there to work the train as a team, with safety of the line, train and passengers as the first priority.
I do not require a non railwayman tell me how to work a train, shunt a yard out in pouring rain at 0300 hrs freezing morning and knock a 5 crippled trucks out of a train at Garsdale with on me Bardic Handlamp for illumination.
This all comes with experience and I have enough of that to last me a lifetime.
After all this time, I am still learning my job, as everyday you learn something new.

 

[moggie]

Personally from the staff side of things, if you're doing something you shouldn't be - i'll have a go at you, if you've got your tripod right on the edge of the platform - expect me to have a go at you, if you're in an area you shouldn't be, expect me to have a go at you. Other than that I couldn't care less what you're doing - another thing I can't stand is enthusiasts running up the platform to see a freight or something when I'm trying to concentrate... in the past I've seen a dozen enthusiasts run to the front of the train I'm dispatching only to find a freight is going past... but from a distance to me looks like something seriously wrong has happened. I've nothing against enthusiasts, you're entitled to your hobby... just don't have a whinge when someone confronts you if you know you're doing wrong... it's the minority who spoil it for the rest of you who abide by the rules. The vast majority of enthusiasts are fine, I'll even have a chat to you if it's not completely mind numbing to me/i'm not busy

I agree to a point but as the professional employee - surely 'have a go at you' suggests that you're ready for immediate confontation? Maybe you should be initaially enquiring and advising enthusiast types - then if said individual gives abuse or ignores then rightly 'have a go'. My view is that as a rail employee the enthusiast should initially be given the benefit of doubt about the rules until your position / concerns are explained. Likewise, the enthusiasts should expect Rail staff to excercise their duty of care towards members of the public and not go on the defensive immediately - a grown up conversation would most likely follow in most cases. If not, then accept that Rail Staff will always have the high ground in the sitaution with the support of BTP is necessary; so try not to antagonise them - the job can be difficult enough as it is without supporters who should be on the same side winding each other up.

 

[badger1badger]

I have not met any Northern managers - but I agree some of the staff are truely rude and disgusting ! I don't spot nowadays but have a natural love for trains and some of the staff are very rude indeed.

I was on a train and this red faced guard was literally shouting at an elderly customer " what is it that you don't understand a ticket is not valid a T.I.C.K.E.T comprehende ? the old person was crying and the guard was so worked up - has anyone seen this guard ?

Cheers

Paul

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I have not met any Northern managers - but I agree some of the staff are truely rude and disgusting ! I don't spot nowadays but have a natural love for trains and some of the staff are very rude indeed.

I was on a train and this red faced guard was literally shouting at an elderly customer " what is it that you don't understand a ticket is not valid a T.I.C.K.E.T comprehende ? the old person was crying and the guard was so worked up - has anyone seen this guard ?

Cheers

Paul

WHere was this?

 

[Philip]

funny you mention this as I had a run in with an enthusiast today.

I was at the barrier doing a check when I spot a man walking on the far side of the ramps and round the back towards the train. Being revenue its my job to make sure everyone boarding the train has a ticket. I caught up with the man to ask him where he was going, the blunt reply I got from was "why do you f-ing staff always bother me, I aint doing any harm".
To cut a long story short the man effectively cut his spotting day short by getting himself escorted from the station by the BTP.

Whilst this is the worst I've ever experienced from an enthusiast, I'd say one in three who visit the station actively avoid staff and thus i dont know what they are there for. Alarm bells dont scream terrorist but sometimes ring fare dodger, its unnecessary and is easily avoided.

I have NEVER denied any enthusiast who approached me stating their intentions, plus it has the added bonus of the enthusiast going about their hobby hassle free and I'm aware of what's going on on my platforms.

What about rail employees of different TOCs - Northern Rail actually, who show you the Northern pass for example asking if they can jump on the Virgin to Manchester with that? I've got there and back for free once with it but had to ask twice each way before someone was alright with it.

 

[Aictos]

Rail employees should not just jump on a train if there isn't a existing agreement between the two companies, it's a unoffivial gentlemen's agreement that you find the guard and ask before boarding.

That's just my 2p, by doing that I've never had any problems with guards in fact most have been warmly welcoming to me.

 

[badger1badger]

it was travelling from New Pudsey to Leeds