Suggestions for service provision on the southern WCML once HS2 phase 1 opens

[Esker-pades]

That makes more sense now, though to be a pedant, the xx.13 would need to be xx.14. Its a 13½ minute run to Euston to Watford with a stop for a 390. If the xx.09 is departing Watford at xx.24 then the xx.13 cannot be at Watford until xx.27. You cannot depart Euston on a ½ minute so leaving Euston at xx.14 removes the need for pathing time.

Ah, right. Thank you. That means that spare path becomes available only up to Bourne End, which is slightly annoying.

 

[PTR 444]

I think it would be nice to have Pendolinos regularly serving Northampton again, as the station is a major railhead for the region and only sees 110mph DMUs which aren’t really considered intercity. Perhaps a direct Euston - MKC - Northampton service should be established, which could then continue to Manchester or Liverpool via the Trent Valley.

 

[krus_aragon]

2tph Trent Valley (Milton Keynes, Rugby, all stations to Crewe)*

*Could continue north. If it does terminate at Crewe, it would have to be run with a modified shoter Pendolino or bimode so it could fit in the longer south-facing bay platforms at Crewe

If you're stopping at all stations north of Rugby, you may well be running on the slows through Stafford. In that case, the loop for platforms 11 and 12 at Crewe would be easily accessible, with plenty of room to terminate a Pendolino.

 

[Esker-pades]

If you're stopping at all stations north of Rugby, you may well be running on the slows through Stafford. In that case, the loop for platforms 11 and 12 at Crewe would be easily accessible, with plenty of room to terminate a Pendolino.

But having a through platform effectively taken out of use at Crewe is a really bad idea. There's a struggle for through platform capacity as it is without removing another one.

 

[The Planner]

But having a through platform effectively taken out of use at Crewe is a really bad idea. There's a struggle for through platform capacity as it is without removing another one.

Remember Crewe will be quite a different place after 2a.

 

[Esker-pades]

Remember Crewe will be quite a different place after 2a.

Ah, yes. I'm not sure how Crewe will change though, so I assumed the current layout as a sort of 'worst case scenario'. I'm also assuming that 2 full length Pendolinos an hour will be overkill for most of the Trent Valley stuff, so one could shorten sets to 6 cars without leaving passengers behind. Or use the 5/7 car bi-modes that are planned.

 

[krus_aragon]

But having a through platform effectively taken out of use at Crewe is a really bad idea. There's a struggle for through platform capacity as it is without removing another one.

Bearing in mind @The Planner 's observation, platform 12 is only used for 20 or so movements a day. A good half of those are freight or ECS moves, which could use the Up & Down Loop, or perhaps a bay platform (for the reversing ECS moves).

 

[6Gman]

Gobowen doesn’t seem the obvious place at first to terminate an intercity train, but thinking about it, it is a railhead for Oswestry as well as being practically halfway between Shrewsbury and Wrexham. Both these towns have the occasional Avanti service which could be improved once HS2 frees up capacity, therefore you could link up the two routes and have an hourly Euston - New Street - Shrewsbury - Chester - Euston loop service, with another hourly departure serving the opposite direction. This could also replace the existing Birmingham - Holyhead which in turn would free up capacity on the North Wales Line, permitting an increase in frequency for Avanti trains to run at hourly intervals on that line.

Please, please don't do this. Its resilience would be awful!

 

[PTR 444]

Please, please don't do this. Its resilience would be awful!

Why would that be?

 

[Esker-pades]

Why would that be?

Any delay it picked up on the first part of the loop would also exist on the return to London. Thus, you'd amplify any disruption because the delay would be transmitted to both up and down services.

 

[6Gman]

Remember Crewe will be quite a different place after 2a.

Do we actually know what's likely to happen at Crewe?

 

[The Planner]

Do we actually know what's likely to happen at Crewe?

Its down to two options. Still not nailed down though.

 

[6Gman]

Its down to two options. Still not nailed down though.

Do we know what the two options are?

(Last I heard was a bit of a bodged job with 5 & 6 - essentially - becoming HS2 platforms with everything else, somehow, slotting into the rest of the station with, perhaps, platforms on the Independents for Shrewsbury - Crewe - Manchester. As I say, bodged.)

 

[krus_aragon]

I had a dim recollection that replacing the independent lines with high-speed platforms had been considered at one point. There's also the disused island around platform 12, but routing high speed lines in and out of there may be a little problematic. A lot would depend on where freight trains would go instead.

 

[The Planner]

Do we know what the two options are?

(Last I heard was a bit of a bodged job with 5 & 6 - essentially - becoming HS2 platforms with everything else, somehow, slotting into the rest of the station with, perhaps, platforms on the Independents for Shrewsbury - Crewe - Manchester. As I say, bodged.)

I do, but I don't think it is in the public domain yet. HS2 was always going to use 5&6, not sure why anyone would think different.

 

[krus_aragon]

I do, but I don't think it is in the public domain yet. HS2 was always going to use 5&6, not sure why anyone would think different.

There was early talk of a subterranean box approach (though I can't recall from which quarter). Perhaps the independent lines idea span off from that, possibly within the confines of my own mind. :/

Still, here's hoping that a good decision is made, and then we'll all get to natter on about it once it's announced.

 

[6Gman]

There was early talk of a subterranean box approach (though I can't recall from which quarter). Perhaps the independent lines idea span off from that, possibly within the confines of my own mind. :/

Still, here's hoping that a good decision is made, and then we'll all get to natter on about it once it's announced.

The ... interesting ... controversial ... former leader of Cheshire East Council had ideas of an underground station, but I'm not sure it was ever a realistic idea.

 

[6Gman]

I do, but I don't think it is in the public domain yet. HS2 was always going to use 5&6, not sure why anyone would think different.

Well, going back a few years there was talk of a new station in Basford.

 

[The Planner]

Well, going back a few years there was talk of a new station in Basford.

That was binned off early on, probably 2 or more years ago now.

 

[6Gman]

That was binned off early on, probably 2 or more years ago now.

That's a relief.

 

[JamesT]

The plan is still for there to be a through tunnel under Crewe to allow Captive sized HS2 trains to bypass it?
Could the idea of an underground station be a misconception that’s how all HS2 trains get to Crewe?