Ideas for the new CrossCountry franchise

[James Kevill]

I was thinking about ideas for the future CrossCountry franchise such as new trains, new routes and extension of the existing services. Any ideas for this new franchise which is due to start in 18th October this year? (If the franchise is delayed or cancelled)

 

[Carlisle]

Any ideas for this new franchise which is due to start in 18th October this year?

I thought it’d been as good as decided not to award any more conventional rail franchises, just to extend existing ones, where appropriate

 

[Scott M]

Personally think XC are fine as they are, just need longer trains and cut out some stations to make it more IC (like on the the BHM-Scotland section). Could xfer the Turbostar services to a local operator too, if possible.

 

[PG]

I thought it’d been as good as decided not to award any more conventional rail franchises, just to extend existing ones, where appropriate

And if terms can't be agreed for an extension what then? OLR 3?

 

[Glenn1969]

Given that there hasn't been a competition I was expecting a Direct Award. Plenty of time for that announcement between now and October

 

[crablab]

XC just need more capacity.

 

[swt_passenger]

Here we go again with XC Bingo...

Must be almost a month since the last general purpose XC improvements thread. What’s new this time?

Longer Voyagers
More Voyagers
Bimode Voyagers
Meridians
Shorter Meridians
(Can 221/222/220 work in multiple?)
802s
170s
185s
Brighton
Liverpool
Ramsgate
Poole
Kensington Olympia
Hull
Paignton
Cardiff
Glasgow via Manchester
Glasgow via WCML
EMUs to replace Voyagers between New St and Manchester
Er...

 

[johnnychips]

Good post @swt_passenger. I’m sure there are loads of other threads where this has been discussed ad infinitum.

 

[JonathanH]

Any ideas for this new franchise which is due to start in 18th October this year? (If the franchise is delayed or cancelled)

In the current circumstances (Williams Review, pension issue, CrossCountry being profitable, limited time, available resources) a direct award with the existing operator and very limited change to the operation would appear the most likely position from October onwards.

 

[Mogz]

swt_passenger

I couldn’t have put it better myself.

But since this is a speculative ideas thread, I would add (for the longest services):

- South West and South Coast to Scotland sleepers.

- Loco hauled + Mk5.

- DB style Restaurant, buffet and compartments for families and first class.

Back to reality for a moment, though,
I think the very best we can hope for is the Avanti Voyagers and (at a push) Meridians to strengthen the fleet.

 

[Clansman]

Here we go again with XC Bingo...

Must be almost a month since the last general purpose XC improvements thread. What’s new this time?

Longer Voyagers
More Voyagers
Bimode Voyagers
Meridians
Shorter Meridians
(Can 221/222/220 work in multiple?)
802s
170s
185s
Brighton
Liverpool
Ramsgate
Poole
Kensington Olympia
Hull
Paignton
Cardiff
Glasgow via Manchester
Glasgow via WCML
EMUs to replace Voyagers between New St and Manchester
Er...

-Bi Mode 397s
-Axing anything and everything beyond Bristol-Newcastle
-Nottingham to Cardiff, and Stansted, going to TPE, TfW, or EMR
-HSTs on Aberdeen to Penzance service because "13 hours is a long time to sit on a Voyager" for that one person who decides to make it in full for the novelty of it
-Inverness
-Scotland via S&C
-Wick
-Splitting and Joining at Birmingham
-Buffet Cars and the economics of the trolley
-Removing first class
-Skipping any station stop that doesn't have more than 1 million passengers per annum simply because "that's what intercity trains do"
-How dare XC turn off the Voyagers' tilt on routes not equipped to use it despite it not ever going to make a difference
-Additional HSTs and dispensation for classic operation because "the whole point of the Mk3 is to hang your head out the window and there's no fun in not having that on other trains"
-Lack of window alignment
-Too many disabled toilets on Voyagers - re 3 class debate - and the interior smell
-Replacing existing seat moquette and carpets with newer ones of the same design doesn't constitue a refurbishment
-Intercity TOC vs Commuter TOC as if the franchise must have a binary differentiation
-Younger members and die hard spotters trying to think of an operational reason to have XC and their HSTs serve their local branchline request stop station

...ughhhh

 

[Aictos]

In reality I know the best thing that any XC franchise can hope for is cascaded Class 222s however one interesting point and this won’t happen for a good few years yet and that’s a what if the existing XC and TPE franchises were operated as one under a XC brand?

 

[swt_passenger]

In reality I know the best thing that any XC franchise can hope for is cascaded Class 222s however one interesting point and this won’t happen for a good few years yet and that’s a what if the existing XC and TPE franchises were operated as one under a XC brand?

Been done only a few weeks ago somewhere (although I’m not finding it easily!). It was possibly in an HS2 thread, but someone thought Manchester could be a second Northern XC hub. People have also asked why the Liverpool Nottingham Norwich can’t be transferred to XC, rather than to TPE or Northern.

My answer is always that they have enough problems running the existing franchise. It would be better without the former CT Midlands routes, they should focus on the long routes.

 

[Mills444]

Here we go again with XC Bingo...

Must be almost a month since the last general purpose XC improvements thread. What’s new this time?

Longer Voyagers
More Voyagers
Bimode Voyagers
Meridians
Shorter Meridians
(Can 221/222/220 work in multiple?)
802s
170s
185s
Brighton
Liverpool
Ramsgate
Poole
Kensington Olympia
Hull
Paignton
Cardiff
Glasgow via Manchester
Glasgow via WCML
EMUs to replace Voyagers between New St and Manchester
Er...

Missed out HST'S

 

[swt_passenger]

Missed out HST'S

Drat... I tried to be realistic as well

 

[Grecian 1998]

No mention of Lincoln, or joining and splitting as many services as possible e.g. joining Bournemouth, Portsmouth and Brighton portions at Reading and splitting them again at Stafford for Liverpool, Glasgow and Manchester, with all the fun that would entail - definitely not an operational nightmare. Also needs to mention someone opining that Voyagers are terrible and need to be scrapped immediately (which always seemed a strange way of solving XC's capacity problems).

Good bingo lists otherwise though.

 

[NoMorePacers]

My house requires an XC service. HSTs must be converted into road trains so my house can have a direct CrossCountry service to Brummingham. I demand this addition to be carried out with immediate effect of a new franchise starting, and to be prioritised above everything and anything else. If this does not happen I will get ever so slightly upset. I might even shed a tear. Wouldn't want that would we?

 

[Mogz]

I’ve changed my mind.

CrossCountry is perfect as it is.

It’s not the fault of the Voyagers that they are too short. It’s the fault of too many passengers who really should be using local trains for using them for commuting.

The super long distance point to point passengers who want a direct journey without changes should really be using road coaches rather than hoping for a through train. They’re probably elderly anyway.

Those who complain about leg room should really have surgery to reduce their height so as to be able to fit in the seats, which have more than reasonable space for the modern railway.

For those who want restaurants or buffets- who do you think you are? Continental Europeans? You really should be ashamed for your undeserved sense of entitlement.

For those of you who want things that used to be available on long distance trains (like compartments and comfortable seats), you’re dinosaurs living in the past. You need to get real and with it.

For those of you who want XC to serve more destinations- just shut up. You can change at Birmingham/Wolverhampton.

For those of you who want extra coaches or different rolling stock, there’s no money available and nothing is going to change so you might as well save your bandwidth and breath.

Now let’s never mention XC ever again.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

No one has mentioned the need for XC to again serve South Wales beyond Cardiff , or even Weymouth - and of course Ramsgate via Bromley South on Saturdays only - preferably with a borrowed Deltic. ....

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Here we go again with XC Bingo...

Must be almost a month since the last general purpose XC improvements thread. What’s new this time?

Longer Voyagers
More Voyagers
Bimode Voyagers
Meridians
Shorter Meridians
(Can 221/222/220 work in multiple?)
802s
170s
185s
Brighton
Liverpool
Ramsgate
Poole
Kensington Olympia
Hull
Paignton
Cardiff
Glasgow via Manchester
Glasgow via WCML
EMUs to replace Voyagers between New St and Manchester
Er...

Good list , and I am pleased you got Ramsgate in.

What about Guildford and a new use for 442 units ?

 

[swt_passenger]

Good list , and I am pleased you got Ramsgate in.

What about Guildford and a new use for 442 units ?

I’m keeping them back in case we have to do this again in March...

 

[James Kevill]

Which of these rolling stock built manufacturers would be suitable for the new future CrossCountry franchise? It depends if there's a electrification on some certain routes, and maybe all the routes could be electrified when the diesel tractions will be eliminated by 2040.

• Bombardier
• Alstom
• Siemens
• Hitachi
• CAF
• Stadler

 

[JonathanH]

Which of these rolling stock built manufacturers would be suitable for the new future CrossCountry franchise? It depends if there's a electrification on some certain routes, and maybe all the routes could be electrified when the diesel tractions will be eliminated by 2040.

• Bombardier
• Alstom
• Siemens
• Hitachi
• CAF
• Stadler

Any of them could build suitable rolling stock if the price is right.

I don't really see how this question is relevant at this stage. First of all, the DfT needs to decide what it wants from the Cross Country franchise in terms of service levels and then it and the future operators need to work out whether they actually need more rolling stock to provide that. There is no point discussing rolling stock suppliers for an operation that isn't yet looking for new trains.

For all we know, there might not be any new trains built for Cross Country until the mid-2030s, particularly with HS2 providing the fast links between Birmingham and Manchester and Birmingham and the East Midlands / Yorkshire. The Voyagers might well be expected to last until then.

Indeed, building a whole new fleet of 125 mph trains for the Cross Country route is in some ways ridiculous if the future of most of the lines over which they operate, once HS2 is built, is as a 110mph interurban railway.

 

[hooverboy]

Given that there hasn't been a competition I was expecting a Direct Award. Plenty of time for that announcement between now and October

given the daft's record on micromanagement i would be surprised if there were much in the way of bidders now.

virgin is a possibility,but i would expect a seriously low-ball offer given the trouble the other ToC's are in.

as for rolling stock. 22x family are fine for XC routes, they just need a lot more through the core.
i much prefer turbostars on the semi-fasts as well, except their present ones are too short.

overall a 50% increase in capacity is needed urgently.

 

[hooverboy]

Which of these rolling stock built manufacturers would be suitable for the new future CrossCountry franchise? It depends if there's a electrification on some certain routes, and maybe all the routes could be electrified when the diesel tractions will be eliminated by 2040.

• Bombardier
• Alstom
• Siemens
• Hitachi
• CAF
• Stadler

I would say at present it's between hitachi and bombardier.

1)bombardier- proven with long distance diesel
2)alstom electrics are nice, but their diesels suck!..bi modes will probably catch fire like their diesels do.
3)siemens..again better with electrics. I think 350/esque DMU as sprinter replacement would look nice though...just a shame it sounds like a UFO! very annoying
4)hitachi. done a very good job with high speed and bi- mode nationally.strong contender
5)CAF...not proven for long distance MU's,locos are nice but heavy. strong regional contender but not really national.
6)stadler...see 5). 74x/75x are excellent regional units circa sprinter/pacer replacement, unproven for long distance national.