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England Finally Makes Decisions To Reopen Lines

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Brush 4

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a_c_skinner

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Politically the B&T is a cert or should be. Fleetwood too perhaps, though in truth I don't see the utility of it. What about Skipton to Colne? B&T will be operating before the next election is my guess. Politically one operating and two in build plus one or two more in the air would be my target. As regards utility as transport I'm less sure. B&T certainly. Skipton to Colne more use than Fleetwood. E-W is a given apparently. What is really needed, politically and transportly is Leeds to Manchester improvements. Castlefield is a good project transport wise but politically it won't garner votes.
 

yorksrob

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Good news that Portishead is now up and running.

Now that Devon C.C own most of the trackbed, tracks through Shillamill tunnel to Tavistock should be close on the agenda.

Infact, now that we've had £100 billion committed to HS2 and £5 billion for bus routes/cycleways, how about setting aside £5 billion over a decade to reconnect communities to rail.
 

Bald Rick

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Politically the B&T is a cert or should be. Fleetwood too perhaps, though in truth I don't see the utility of it. What about Skipton to Colne? B&T will be operating before the next election is my guess. Politically one operating and two in build plus one or two more in the air would be my target. As regards utility as transport I'm less sure. B&T certainly. Skipton to Colne more use than Fleetwood. E-W is a given apparently. What is really needed, politically and transportly is Leeds to Manchester improvements. Castlefield is a good project transport wise but politically it won't garner votes.

Blyth & Tyne has a very good chance. Fleetwood - maybe, but I suspect when the inevitable issues emerge the Department will go quiet on it. Skipton - Colne has no chance, as discussed as nauseam elsewhere. There are far, far, far better cases than Skipton - Colne elsewhere. Hoo has a good chance.
 

yorksrob

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Blyth & Tyne has a very good chance. Fleetwood - maybe, but I suspect when the inevitable issues emerge the Department will go quiet on it. Skipton - Colne has no chance, as discussed as nauseam elsewhere. There are far, far, far better cases than Skipton - Colne elsewhere. Hoo has a good chance.

I must admit, Hoo wasn't really on my radar as a potential passenger reopening, but it would be good to see it. Some beautiful scenery in its own way (assuming they don't build all over it !).
 

Wharfe106

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Given the length of the planning process, don't expect shovels to be clanging any time soon, 3-4 years minimum for B+T and Fleetwood, and Leamside is in that mix too. and don't discount Skipton-Colne, it has tremendous benefits for increasing economic activity and very serious support - the world is changing and green issues are also important. Others near the top might be Lewes-Uckfield and Tavistock, bot long over due/delayed.

Back on 2006 the (I think) the Bicester-Bletchley section of East West was set to open in 2013 or so.....

Little can be completed before the next General Election, but in a world where Transport Secretaries can change policy at a stroke - look at Castlefield, Hope Valley, electrification - hang no hat on clanging shovels.
 

John R

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Good news that Portishead is now up and running.
Just to clarify, the Portishead project is currently two months into the Development Consent Order process, which is 18 months long. So no shovels on the ground for another two years at least, assuming it gets approval of course.
 
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Fawley should be a no brainer, track all there, road alternative a nightmare, but down here we are wasting £224 million on a so called smart motorway "upgrade". At least that is what the signs describe it as.
 

swt_passenger

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Given the length of the planning process, don't expect shovels to be clanging any time soon, 3-4 years minimum for B+T and Fleetwood, and Leamside is in that mix too. and don't discount Skipton-Colne, it has tremendous benefits for increasing economic activity and very serious support - the world is changing and green issues are also important. Others near the top might be Lewes-Uckfield and Tavistock, bot long over due/delayed.

Back on 2006 the (I think) the Bicester-Bletchley section of East West was set to open in 2013 or so.....

Little can be completed before the next General Election, but in a world where Transport Secretaries can change policy at a stroke - look at Castlefield, Hope Valley, electrification - hang no hat on clanging shovels.
Leamside is nowhere near the same status as Blyth. There’s no way you can say it is “ in that mix too”... I doubt any of your other possibles are going through active local authority planning to the same extent the Blyth and Tyne currently is.
 

a_c_skinner

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Gentlemen (some crude gender stereotyping here) the issue isn't readiness, nor planning, nor cost benefit, I chose ones in the NORTH. If I were Boris I'd go for B&T as a quick win and make sure it was quick even if it means traffic before all stations are finished. Fleetwood is a turkey, it doesn't need a railway now there are no docks to speak of so he will have to find some other places north of a line from the Mersey to the Humber. I still think Skipton Colne is worth an each way bet but politics rules more than normal planning. It won't be electrification I think on reflection, too much political risk if it goes badly which seems not unlikely. I'd announce electrification before the next election so it wasn't going wrong until I'd got a second term. Leamside as part of Metro extensions?
 
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Deepgreen

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2020 has seen a welcome jolt into action at long last, where new lines and re-openings are concerned.
HS2
East-West
Possibly Blyth and Tyne
Possibly Fleetwood I'm still not sure if these two are definite or political soundbites.
And one that seemed to slip under the radar, the Hoo branch
https://www.railfuture.org.uk/article1850-Hoo---rail-victory

As a precursor, 2019 saw the go-ahead for Portishead https://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/index.html
So 4 or possibly 6 lines where shovels will soon be clanging. Good start, let's see more like this.
As with everything Johnson has ever said, take all with a shovel of salt.
 

Meerkat

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If it’s political then Boris would be better off throwing money at upgrades, particularly electrification.
 

swt_passenger

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If it’s political then Boris would be better off throwing money at upgrades, particularly electrification.
Passenger services to Blyth is really an upgrade, the line itself is already open, and is in fairly good condition. The planning applications for the stations are going through at the moment. It isn’t some fantasy proposal on the back of a fag packet...
 

Wharfe106

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Leamside is nowhere near the same status as Blyth. There’s no way you can say it is “ in that mix too”... I doubt any of your other possibles are going through active local authority planning to the same extent the Blyth and Tyne currently is.
Accepted, but like B+T Lamside has been backed by the LAs for a long time, it ought to be a quick win (no DCO?), it's in the Tory North, and it offers socio economic benefits aplenty, so lots in common, and much needed.
 

cle

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Just in time for when Nissan leave Sunderland, speaking of turkeys as some were.

Fleetwood I see no point, better might be an expansion of the tram network to have a line to Poulton.

It's un-sexy but Castlefield, Ely, finishing GW/MML wiring, Leeds-Manchester routes (and various wires) - those are the projects which matter.
 

geoffk

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Passenger services to Blyth is really an upgrade, the line itself is already open, and is in fairly good condition. The planning applications for the stations are going through at the moment. It isn’t some fantasy proposal on the back of a fag packet...
Is the B&T single track between Benton Jn and Newsham Jn? There seem to be quite a lot of freight paths but not all used. Would a (presumed) hourly passenger service require redoubling and is that in the budget?
 

swt_passenger

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Is the B&T single track between Benton Jn and Newsham Jn? There seem to be quite a lot of freight paths but not all used. Would a (presumed) hourly passenger service require redoubling and is that in the budget?
I found the planning application a few months ago and there was very little redoubling needed, just at one of the stations where they need to extend existing double track just a short distance through the future platform position. South end of Newsham, but that’s from memory. The line would remain single through Northumberland Park and Seaton Delaval new stations.
 

geoffk

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I found the planning application a few months ago and there was very little redoubling needed, just at one of the stations where they need to extend existing double track just a short distance through the future platform position. South end of Newsham, but that’s from memory. The line would remain single through Northumberland Park and Seaton Delaval new stations.
OK thanks. I don't know the area well but have a friend who lives near Newbiggin. She doesn't drive and often uses the train from Morpeth, so Ashington would be an improvement, although a slower journey. A shame the line doesn't go to Newbiggin as well as Lynemouth.
 

a_c_skinner

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If it’s political then Boris would be better off throwing money at upgrades, particularly electrification.
I think not. That will play with voters as the repairs we should have been doing being touted as development. Boris needs reopenings in the North or new railways. Transpennine won't pay off in the time available (third term anyone?).
 

swt_passenger

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OK thanks. I don't know the area well but have a friend who lives near Newbiggin. She doesn't drive and often uses the train from Morpeth, so Ashington would be an improvement, although a slower journey. A shame the line doesn't go to Newbiggin as well as Lynemouth.
I think extension beyond Ashington might be a future extension proposal, but it isn’t worked up to any detail.
 

Bald Rick

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Given the length of the planning process, don't expect shovels to be clanging any time soon, 3-4 years minimum for B+T and Fleetwood, and Leamside is in that mix too. and don't discount Skipton-Colne, it has tremendous benefits for increasing economic activity and very serious support - the world is changing and green issues are also important. Others near the top might be Lewes-Uckfield and Tavistock, bot long over due/delayed.

Back on 2006 the (I think) the Bicester-Bletchley section of East West was set to open in 2013 or so.....

Little can be completed before the next General Election, but in a world where Transport Secretaries can change policy at a stroke - look at Castlefield, Hope Valley, electrification - hang no hat on clanging shovels.

B&T could (and I stress ‘could’, not ‘will’) be on site in 2 years or so assuming that there is an answer to the level crossing issues. With a good shove it might just be open in time for the next general election, with Boris cutting the ribbon.

Skipton - Colne does not, repeat not, have tremendous benefits for increasing economic activity, as has been done to death on countless threads previously (so let’s not start that here). Neither does Lewes - Uckfield. Neither have ‘very serious support’ either, notwithstanding what you might read in various rags or websites. Both have rather vociferous campaign groups, which is a different thing. There are plenty of projects that have much better socio-economic and political potential, but because they don’t have vociferous campaign groups they don’t appear on the radar. The Isle of Grain being one of them.
 

Meerkat

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I don’t really buy the Leamside line as a viable passenger reopening - doesn’t look much if any faster, doesn’t really serve Washington, and misses out Durham.
However I do fancy it as a freight route - a more direct route to Tyne Dock, out the way of passenger trains, a (not state aid honest) incentive for Nissan to stay by connecting to the factory, and maybe a new rail connected distribution park on the old opencast at the top of the A194(M)
 

Meerkat

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I think not. That will play with voters as the repairs we should have been doing being touted as development. Boris needs reopenings in the North or new railways. Transpennine won't pay off in the time available (third term anyone?).

Voters aren’t that fussy - new trains and “investment in the north” is enough.
It’s also about numbers and who they vote for.
“Undoing Beeching” is an oddball obsession of blue rinse Tories.
Completing trivial unviable stuff like Fleetwood or Skipton-Cole gets a handful of local votes.
Spread the same amount of money across a lot of “studies” hushes a lot of critics, and something like Piccadilly 15/16 or electrifying the CLC affects a lot more people.
 

a_c_skinner

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We will see. You can bet your bottom dollar that No 10 knows what gives most value for money as regards seats in the commons and that is what will get done.
 

tbtc

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Just in time for when Nissan leave Sunderland, speaking of turkeys as some were.

Fleetwood I see no point, better might be an expansion of the tram network to have a line to Poulton.

It's un-sexy but Castlefield, Ely, finishing GW/MML wiring, Leeds-Manchester routes (and various wires) - those are the projects which matter.

Agreed - we should focus on the unsexy stuff, rather than rambling routes through empty countryside that appeal to a few diehards but don't offer much everyday benefit - there's a long list of cancelled schemes (e.g. MML electrification) and deferred schemes (various bits of PTE) and vaguely promised schemes (Dore re-doubling) and relatively simple/quick schemes (stringing up some knitting for the low speed single track Windermere branch)... before anyone starts worrying about the importance of connecting some villages in rural Devon/ North Yorkshire etc.

Either we have a serious discussion about things that have a practical chance of getting green light in the next few years or we have a Crayonista discussion about fantasy proposals for spending hundreds of millions of pounds reconnecting villages with almost hundreds of residents.

Some people see re-opening a line that previously failed as an end in themselves, some people see re-openings as one potential tool in the toolbox (and there are several other ways of improving the network - electrification, speed improvements to existing lines, new platforms, passing loops, brand new alignments etc. The idea of having a fund specifically to fund re-openings just reinforces the fact that re-openings are generally fairly weak compared to all of the other ways that we could improve things (often "unsexy" things are much better than fanciful projects)

Still it's always interesting to read people say that we should re-open lines closed over fifty years ago, when the same people are often against HS2 because it'd mean cutting down trees and be bad for wildlife...

I don’t really buy the Leamside line as a viable passenger reopening - doesn’t look much if any faster, doesn’t really serve Washington, and misses out Durham.
However I do fancy it as a freight route - a more direct route to Tyne Dock, out the way of passenger trains, a (not state aid honest) incentive for Nissan to stay by connecting to the factory, and maybe a new rail connected distribution park on the old opencast at the top of the A194(M)

My stock response on the Leamside is that it looks nice on paper but it'd have to offer something that the existing line didn't - either a faster route (to take the non stop passenger services away from the Durham kink) or a freight only route (to increase the number of passenger services on the existing line north of Darlington).

For all that it ticks a box by serving the fringes of Washington, you could just build a station on the existing line around Birtley as a "Washington Parkway" (since any Leamside station on the eastern fringes of Washington would be something people would have to drive to, so a lot of money to spend on something to save driving slightly further to the P&R at Heworth. The only real benefit for passenger services would be for the kind of people who think it's worth spending huge sums just to tick the box of having a "Washington" station - it wouldn't serve the centre - it wouldn't really do anything passenger-wise that a Birtley station couldn't do (and a BIrtley station could allow four tracking on the ECML to improve existing services).

Washington remains an enigma - it ought to be the kind of place that had a railway (frequent commercial bus services, large enough population, commuter distance into two nearby cities etc) but the population is spread out over a huge area, the railway didn't go anywhere near the actual centre of the place, it's hard to work out a way of serving it that'd be of practical benefit (instead of just the "putting the town on the map" guff beloved of local councillors).

A bigger benefit of a passenger service on the Leamside is that the existing P&R outside Durham could be a great railhead for taking cars off the A1 - fast EMUs from there to Newcastle and Metro Centre could be brilliant at that .
 

swt_passenger

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I don’t really buy the Leamside line...

However I do fancy it as a freight route - a more direct route to Tyne Dock, out the way of passenger trains, a (not state aid honest) incentive for Nissan to stay by connecting to the factory, and maybe a new rail connected distribution park on the old opencast at the top of the A194(M)
...I’m assuming a reopened route over a reinstated Pontop Crossing, to avoid the reversal that would be necessary at Pelaw?
 

geoffk

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I don’t really buy the Leamside line as a viable passenger reopening - doesn’t look much if any faster, doesn’t really serve Washington, and misses out Durham.
However I do fancy it as a freight route - a more direct route to Tyne Dock, out the way of passenger trains, a (not state aid honest) incentive for Nissan to stay by connecting to the factory, and maybe a new rail connected distribution park on the old opencast at the top of the A194(M)
Would reopening the Leamside line also allow Northern to run Newcastle - Middlesbrough via Ferryhill and Stillington? I understand this has been refused because of lack of paths on the ECML. Of course, you can argue that we don't need six fast trains an hour north of York, but that's for another discussion.
 

androdas

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B&T could (and I stress ‘could’, not ‘will’) be on site in 2 years or so assuming that there is an answer to the level crossing issues. With a good shove it might just be open in time for the next general election, with Boris cutting the ribbon.

Out of interest what are the level crossing issues? I live in Ashington and these crossings are used daily by 5/6 trains to Lynemouth power station. Theres been no talk locally about replacements and not sure how you could replace with bridges especially Bedlington South, Marcheys, North Seaton and Green Lane as they are all in fairly built up areas.
 
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