TfW recast - service suggestions

[PTR 444]

That set of TfW services would need resignalling of Bangor-Holyhead: there's currently a long block section between Valley and Gaerwen (as well as the single track over the Britannia Bridge) which makes 3tph out of Holyhead very tight; that's part of why TfW only plan to extend Manchester services as far as Bangor from the 2022 timetable change.

But that's drifting away from the topic of what trains you'd run along the WCML South. If you want to discuss TfW ideas further, please do start up a thread and let me know; I'll be right over.

To keep the WCML thread on topic, I have created this for discussion regarding service suggestions for the 2022 recast of Transport for Wales services.

Trying to do all the services in one go would be impossible, so I will look at each area of the network on a piecemeal basis and discuss from there. Taking on board feedback from my previous suggestion, this is what I would propose for services on the NWCL:

1tph Holyhead - Cardiff Central: Calling at: Valley, Rhosneigr, Ty Croes, Bodorgan, Llanfairpwll, Bangor, Conwy, Llandudno Junction, Rhyl, Flint, Shotton, Chester, Wrexham General, Ruabon, Chirk, Gobowen, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Abergavenny, Newport, Cardiff Central
1tph Bangor - Birmingham International: Calling at: Llanfairfechan, Penmaenmawr, Conwy, Llandudno Junction, Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint, Chester, Crewe, Stafford, Wolverhampton, Birmingham New Street, Birmingham International
1tph Llandudno - Manchester Airport: Calling at: Deganwy, Llandudno Junction, Colwyn Bay, Abergele & Pensarn, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint, Shotton, Chester, Warrington Bank Quay, Newton-le-Willows, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Airport

This would be in addition to an improved 1tph Avanti service between Holyhead and London Euston. I would also aim to give Llandudno - Blaneau Ffestiniog 0.5-1tph depending on how much capacity that line has.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Conwy Valley doesn't have the capacity for 1tph. If you want clockface, 0.5tph would be the best you could achieve without infrastructure changes, this would require two units.

 

[krus_aragon]

1tph Holyhead - Cardiff Central: Calling at: Valley, Rhosneigr, Ty Croes, Bodorgan, Llanfairpwll, Bangor, Conwy, Llandudno Junction, Rhyl, Flint, Shotton, Chester, Wrexham General, Ruabon, Chirk, Gobowen, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Abergavenny, Newport, Cardiff Central
1tph Bangor - Birmingham International: Calling at: Llanfairfechan, Penmaenmawr, Conwy, Llandudno Junction, Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint, Chester, Crewe, Stafford, Wolverhampton, Birmingham New Street, Birmingham International
1tph Llandudno - Manchester Airport: Calling at: Deganwy, Llandudno Junction, Colwyn Bay, Abergele & Pensarn, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint, Shotton, Chester, Warrington Bank Quay, Newton-le-Willows, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Airport

At a glance, that's fairly similar to the existing plans TfW have announced for 2022. That consists of 1tph Llandudno - Liverpool Lime Street, 1tph Bangor-Manchester, and 1tph Holyhead-Shrewsbury-Birmingham/Cardiff.

I think that a path to Birmingham via Crewe and Stafford will have to wait for capacity to be released by HS2.

 

[6Gman]

The enthusiasm for running lots of trains across Anglesey is admirable, but there really isn't a lot of traffic on offer ...

 

[krus_aragon]

For context, the Train Service Requirements for December 2022 (SX) may be useful. In terms of basic middle-of-the-day frequency, coast stations must have at least the following through services to Chester:

• Llandudno Jn, Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint: 3tph
• Bangor, Shotton: 2tph
• Llanfairfechan, Penmaenmawr, Conwy: 1.5tph
• Holyhead, Llandudno, Deganwy, and Abergele & Pensarn: 1tph
• Valley, Rhosneigr, Ty Croes, Bodorgan, Llanfairpwll: 0.5tph ~ 0.75tph

 

[Llanigraham]

1tph Holyhead - Cardiff Central: Calling at: Valley, Rhosneigr, Ty Croes, Bodorgan, Llanfairpwll, Bangor, Conwy, Llandudno Junction, Rhyl, Flint, Shotton, Chester, Wrexham General, Ruabon, Chirk, Gobowen, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Abergavenny, Newport, Cardiff Central

That seems to totally ignore Ludlow, yet it is a station that seems to have a large passenger loading especially at certain times of the day.

 

[TheWalrus]

Here’s my ideas for Wales overall so we can compare:
1tph Manchester-Milford Haven/Pembroke calling at: Stockport, Wilmslow, Crewe, Nantwich, Whitchurch, Wem, Shrewsbury, Ludlow, Leominster, Hereford, Abergavenny, Cwmbran, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Pyle, Port Talbot Parkway, Baglan*, Briton Ferry*, Neath, Skewen*, Llansamlet*, Swansea, Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembrey & Burry Port, Kidwelly*, Ferryside*, Carmarthen;

- 1tp2h continuing to Whitland, Clunderwen, Clarbeston Road, Haverfordwest, Johnston and Milford Haven;

- 1tp2h continuing to Whitland, Narberth, Kilgetty, Saundersfoot, Tenby, Penally, Manorbier, Lamphey, Pembroke and Pembroke Dock.

1tph Cardiff-Holyhead/Liverpool calling at: Newport, Cwmbran, Pontypool & New Inn*, Abergavenny, Hereford, Ludlow, Craven Arms, Church Stretton, Shrewsbury, Gobowen, Wrexham General, Chester;

- 1tp2h continuing to Helsby, Frodsham, Runcorn East, Liverpool South Parkway and Liverpool Lime Street;

- 1tp2h continuing to Flint, Prestatyn, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno Junction, Bangor, Llanfairpwll, Badorgan, Tŷ Croes, Rhosneigr, Valley and Holyhead.

- This interworks with 1tp2h Holyhead-Birmingham calling at: Bangor, Llandudno Junction, Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint, Chester, Crewe, Stafford, Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street.

1tph from Nottingham to Cardiff extended to Swansea calling at Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath and Swansea. Operated by Cross Country.

Some services from Scotland and the North East to Bristol will extend to Cardiff, either as an extension or splitting units at Bristol Parkway, calling at Newport. Operated by Cross Country.

1tph from Portsmouth to Cardiff extended to Swansea calling at Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath and Swansea. Operated by Great Western Railway.

1tph from Cardiff-Taunton and the South West will be accelerated running non-stop between Bristol Temple Meads and Weston-super-Mare, giving South Wales faster links to the South West. An hourly service from London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads will be extended to Weston-super-Mare, calling at Nailsea & Backwell, Yatton, Worle and Weston-super-Mare.

Services between South Wales and London Paddington will continue similar to now with 1tp2h extended from Swansea to Carmarthen, calling at: Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembrey & Burry Port and Carmarthen. Limited peak time calls may be made at Kidwelly and Ferryside.

Fishguard services to continue as present.

2tph Maesteg-Cardiff calling at all stations. 1tph continues to Newport, Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow, Lydney, Gloucester, Cheltenham Spa, Ashchurch and Worcester Shrub Hill. 1tph continues to Ebbw Vale Town calling at all stations. There will also be a second hourly service on the Ebbw Vale line to Newport.
North Wales

1tph from Holyhead to Birmingham/Cardiff calling at: Valley*, Rhosneigr*, Tŷ Croes*, Badorgan*, Llanfairpwll*, Bangor, Llandudno Junction, Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint, Chester;

- 1tp2h continues to Crewe, Stafford, Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street;

- 1tp2h continues to Wrexham General, Gobowen, Shrewsbury, Church Stretton, Craven Arms, Ludlow, Hereford, Abergavenny, Cwmbran, Newport and Cardiff Central.

1tph Bangor-Manchester Airport calling at: Llanfairfechan*, Penmaenmawr*, Conwy, Llandudno Junction, Colwyn Bae, Abergele & Pensarn, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint, Shotton, Chester, Helsby, Frodsham, Runcorn East, Warrington and stations to Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport.

1tph Llandudno-Liverpool calling at: Deganwy*, Llandudno Junction, Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint, Chester, Helsby, Frodsham, Runcorn East, Liverpool South Parkway and Liverpool Lime Street.

Mid-Wales and West Midlands

1tph Birmingham-Wrexham General calling at, Sandwell & Dudley, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Oakengates, Wellington, Shrewsbury, Gobowen, Chirk, Ruabon and Wrexham General.

1tph Birmingham International-Aberystwyth & Pwllheli calling at: Birmingham New Street, Smethwick Galton Bridge, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington, Shrewsbury, Welshpool, Newtown, Caersws, Machynlleth, where the service will divide. The front portion will call at Borth and Aberystwyth. The rear portion will call at Penhelig*, Aberdovey, Tywyn, Tonfanau*, Llwyngwril*, Fairbourne, Morfa Mawddach*, Barmouth, Llanaber*, Tal-y-Bont*, Dyffryn Ardudwy*, Llanbedr*, Pensarn*, Llandanwg*, Harlech, Talsarnau*, Penrhyndaedraeth*, Minffordd, Porthmadog, Criccieth, Penhchain*, Abererch* and Pwllheli. Limited calls will be made at Dovey Junction, Tygwyn and Llandecwyn.

An additional 1tph will be provided between Birmingham and Shrewsbury calling at all stations between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton. This may be operated by West Midlands Railway.

1tp2h will be provided on the Heart of Wales line between, Swansea, Shrewsbury and Crewe calling at all stations. Some stations may receive a limited service such as Sugar Loaf.
* service calls at this station once every 2 hours

 

[ThomasI]

Limited calls will be made at Dovey Junction, Tygwyn and Llandecwyn.

All Cambrian Line services would have to call at Dovey Junction for passengers travelling from Aberystwyth up the coast or vice-versa as you cannot change at Machynlleth due to the Aber / Pwllheli train departing before the Pwllheli / Aber train arrives.

 

[TheWalrus]

All Cambrian Line services would have to call at Dovey Junction for passengers travelling from Aberystwyth up the coast or vice-versa as you cannot change at Machynlleth due to the Aber / Pwllheli train departing before the Pwllheli / Aber train arrives.

Maybe so, that would depend on what the timetable looks like. Although I suspect it would end up similar to now due to the constraints of single track sections.

 

[VT 390]

All Cambrian Line services would have to call at Dovey Junction for passengers travelling from Aberystwyth up the coast or vice-versa as you cannot change at Machynlleth due to the Aber / Pwllheli train departing before the Pwllheli / Aber train arrives.

Don't all Aberystwyh services have to call at Dovey Junction anyway because that is where they pass each other in each direction?

 

[6Gman]

Here’s my ideas for Wales overall so we can compare:
1tph Manchester-Milford Haven/Pembroke calling at: Stockport, Wilmslow, Crewe, Nantwich, Whitchurch, Wem, Shrewsbury, Ludlow, Leominster, Hereford, Abergavenny, Cwmbran, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Pyle, Port Talbot Parkway, Baglan*, Briton Ferry*, Neath, Skewen*, Llansamlet*, Swansea, Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembrey & Burry Port, Kidwelly*, Ferryside*, Carmarthen;

So you'd stop every train at … Wem … but none at Craven Arms or Church Stretton?

Why not step up the Crewe - Salop stopper to hourly then run most/all of the Manchester - S Wales fast Crewe - Salop?

 

[Llanigraham]

So you'd stop every train at … Wem … but none at Craven Arms or Church Stretton?

Or as I asked Ludlow, which has far higher passenger footfall than either of those?

 

[ThomasI]

Maybe so, that would depend on what the timetable looks like. Although I suspect it would end up similar to now due to the constraints of single track sections.

I find it unlikely the timetable could be modified to facilitate a change at Machynlleth.

Don't all Aberystwyh services have to call at Dovey Junction anyway because that is where they pass each other in each direction?

That's correct, however they could pass without calling however the Machynlleth-bound service would have to wait, so not allowing passengers to alight / board would be very silly.

 

[TheWalrus]

So you'd stop every train at … Wem … but none at Craven Arms or Church Stretton?

Why not step up the Crewe - Salop stopper to hourly then run most/all of the Manchester - S Wales fast Crewe - Salop?

Not sure the stopper justifies an hourly service. The idea is that the Wem calls replace the stopper which is reduced in frequency and merged with the HOWL service, unless it is possible to increase the HOWL service to 1tp2h.

I moved Church Stretton and Craven Arms calls to the hourly Cardiff-Liverpool or Holyhead service so they still get a consistent hourly service.

 

[krus_aragon]

I mentioned on another thread that I've put together a rudimentary timetable to explore what TfW's planned services on the North Wales Coast could look like post-2022. Well here it is.

I've based this on the announced routes, and on the minimum service requirements for each station (which I linked to earlier in this thread):

• 1tph Bangor to Manchester (Airport)
• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Llandudno and Shrewsury (with extensions to Cardiff)
• 1tph Holyhead to Shrewsbury, extending alternately to Cardiff or Birmingham

Key assumptions that I've made are:

• Paths out of Manchester and Birmingham are fixed
• Paths out of Liverpool Lime St are somewhat flexible (the current service departs Chester at xx03, xx11, xx27 or xx32 depending on the time of day)
• West Coast services will remain as they are (though a WCML recast is also due in 2022)
• Conwy Valley services can be diagrammed around whatever the coast service is

Major features are:

• Llandudno-Liverpool service is an all-stations stopper, Holyhead and Bangor services are semi-fast east of Llandudno Jn
• Llanfairfechan, Penmaenmawr and Conwy are served by the hourly Bangor service, and also Holyhead-Birmingham services. HHD-BHM serve all Anglesey stations (giving a basic 0.5tph service), and some HHD-CDF services will also call at selected stations
• Holyhead and Bangor services give a half-hourly service eastbound from Bangor
• The Llandudno Jn shuttle (operated by the Llandudno-Liverpool units) connects with the Bangor-Manchester services to replicate the withdrawn service

Weaknesses include:

• Poor separation of services on Shrewsbury-Chester: northbound trains are ten minutes apart, likewise southbound.
• Manchester services terminate in Bangor seven minutes ahead of a London service (in the hours they run), or have to wait for a London-bound train (when they run) to pass through before shunting into platform 1. Thankfully, no London trains cross each other at Bangor!
• When a London train is running to Holyhead, the following TfW service is only seven minutes behind at Llandudno Jn. The long signalling block from Gaerwen to Valley means the TfW service will have to slow down a bit on the way (making more station calls).
• Holyhead-Birmingham services still have their twenty minute layover at Chester; they have to run down the coast this early to keep out of the way of the Liverpool train and the London one (when it runs). Alternatively, it could depart ~10 minutes later, with a 5 minute layover at Llajdudno Jn (to be passed by the London train).
  
• Platforming everything at Chester is a bit tight, and adding non-terminating London trains into the mix as well makes things very crowded in the xx10-xx35 period.

I've done a bit of exploratory work on what could be done if the West Coast path was moved to another time, but I haven't found a solution that's significantly better (yet).

 

[PTR 444]

That seems to totally ignore Ludlow, yet it is a station that seems to have a large passenger loading especially at certain times of the day.

This is because I plan to have 3tph between Newport and Shrewsbury. One of these will be an express calling only at Abergavenny and Hereford, 1tph will call at all shacks while the final tph will call at all except Craven Arms and Church Stretton

 

[6Gman]

Not sure the stopper justifies an hourly service. The idea is that the Wem calls replace the stopper which is reduced in frequency and merged with the HOWL service, unless it is possible to increase the HOWL service to 1tp2h.

Reduced to what?

 

[Llanigraham]

This is because I plan to have 3tph between Newport and Shrewsbury. One of these will be an express calling only at Abergavenny and Hereford, 1tph will call at all shacks while the final tph will call at all except Craven Arms and Church Stretton

I'm intrigued as to why you have chosen Abergavenny and ignored Ludlow. From my experience the latter is busier than the former.

 

[krus_aragon]

This is because I plan to have 3tph between Newport and Shrewsbury. One of these will be an express calling only at Abergavenny and Hereford, 1tph will call at all shacks while the final tph will call at all except Craven Arms and Church Stretton

I'm intrigued as to why you have chosen Abergavenny and ignored Ludlow. From my experience the latter is busier than the former.

Just floating in a tangential observation here: Abergavenny is often spoken about as being a potential northern turnback for a stopper service calling at the likes of Newport, Caerleon, Cwmbran, and Pontypool. That may or may not be worth integrating into any aspirations for the Marches.

 

[TheWalrus]

Just floating in a tangential observation here: Abergavenny is often spoken about as being a potential northern turnback for a stopper service calling at the likes of Newport, Caerleon, Cwmbran, and Pontypool. That may or may not be worth integrating into any aspirations for the Marches.

I think both the idea of an Abergavenny stopper and Cardiff-Shrewsbury stopper is a good idea. However it would require more units hence I didn’t include it in my plans.

 

[TheWalrus]

Reduced to what?

If Wem, Whitchurch and Nantwich had hourly calls on the Manchester service there wouldn’t be as much need for a Shrewsbury-Crewe stopper. Do Yorton, Wrenbury and Prees justify a two-hourly service or would 4/5 tpd suffice at the busiest times?

 

[krus_aragon]

If Wem, Whitchurch and Nantwich had hourly calls on the Manchester service there wouldn’t be as much need for a Shrewsbury-Crewe stopper. Do Yorton, Wrenbury and Prees justify a two-hourly service or would 4/5 tpd suffice at the busiest times?

A more apropos question in this instance would be "given that the DfT have told the Welsh Government what service provision they require on the English side of the border, and that they're paying them to provide it, what do the DfT think is required?"

The answer will be in the funding and output agreement or somewhere similar. I'm out and about today, so don't have the opportunity to dig through it myself at the moment.

 

[algytaylor]

The Heart of Wales line service needs desperately looking at. Even at the meagre level of service it currently has, the times of the trains & journey time make it unusable in any practical sense. A few examples off the top of my head:
- The last train from Shrewsbury leaves at 6pm, making longer distance trips (eg to Birmingham or Manchester) difficult to do in a day
- From Llandrindod, it takes over 90mins to get to Shrewsbury (52 miles). Why would anyone use an infrequent train service over car at such ridiculous speeds?
- Caersws (pop 1500) has ~60,000 journeys per year. Knighton (pop 3000) has ~20,000. Both have similar journey times to Shrewsbury. Caersws has significantly better bus services (ie more competition). The obvious conclusion is that there's untapped potential there, even more so for Llandrindod which has lower outbound traffic due to the uselessness of the services

These are all up the north end of the line as I know it better, but to my knowledge the southern part has similar issues.

I'd look at having:
- Some services terminate at Craven Arms, to connect with north/south services on the Marches line (which crossover within a few minutes of eachother). Particularly thinking about the last service of the day, changed to run Swansea-Craven Arms-Llandrindod-Shrewsbury to provide later services without increasing rolling stock requirements
- upgrade level crossings, signals (Brass tokens? Really? In 2020?),etc to increase line speed
- run services 'express' for 2/3 of the line (ie don't stop at request stops, so they might run all stops between Llanwrytd and Llandrindod, but only stop at non-request stops north and south of that - for the north, Knighton, Craven Arms, Church Stratton, Shrewsbury. This faster schedule would allow for a 1tp2h service for an extra 0.5train rolling stock requirement, whilst still maintaining 1tp4h at request stops.
- since they're publicly funded - make the T5 (Cardiff-Newtown) bus service connect up with the trains, so you can interchange between the two. Genuinely don't understand why it doesn't already
- slightly out of scope, bit i'd also make a trawscymru service by combining the existing Hereford-Llandrindod and Llandrindod-Aberystwyth bus services. Those would also be integrated with the rail service, providing decent onward services from Llan'dod.

All of this feeds into a 1Xp2h taktfahrplan for Radnorshire/Brecknockshire, with additional services just having to run in to Llandrindod every 2/4/6/8hrs to connect in to a county wide public transport network

 

[Llanigraham]

- Caersws (pop 1500) has ~60,000 journeys per year. Knighton (pop 3000) has ~20,000. Both have similar journey times to Shrewsbury. Caerswshas significantly better bus services (ie more competition). The obvious conclusion is that there's untapped potential there, even more so for Llandrindod which has lower outbound traffic due to the uselessness of the services

And the nearest town to Caersws station, where probably the majority of it's customers come from, has a population of just over 3k, plus you've ignored the surrounding villages, which gives a greater population than Knighton.
And you have to be joking about the bus service!! You quite obviously don't know the area. There are TWO bus companies in this area, neither serve the station, and neither's timetable ties in with train times.

I'd look at having:
- Some services terminate at Craven Arms, to connect with north/south services on the Marches line (which crossover within a few minutes of eachother). Particularly thinking about the last service of the day, changed to run Swansea-Craven Arms-Llandrindod-Shrewsbury to provide later services without increasing rolling stock requirements

And where do you intend to keep this unit whilst it is awaiting it's return trip?

- upgrade level crossings, signals (Brass tokens? Really? In 2020?),etc to increase line speed

Upgrade the level crossings to what?
And what is wrong with token exchange? It works, it's done whilst the trains are at stations, and it's safe.
And to increase the line speed would need major reconstruction.

- run services 'express' for 2/3 of the line (ie don't stop at request stops, so they might run all stops between Llanwrytd and Llandrindod, but only stop at non-request stops north and south of that - for the north, Knighton, Craven Arms, Church Stratton, Shrewsbury. This faster schedule would allow for a 1tp2h service for an extra 0.5train rolling stock requirement, whilst still maintaining 1tp4h at request stops.

Great! Let's ignore the passengers that use the request stops, they are obviously not important.

 

[krus_aragon]

The Heart of Wales line service needs desperately looking at. Even at the meagre level of service it currently has, the times of the trains & journey time make it unusable in any practical sense.

One of the improvements announced with the new franchise was upping the frequency to 5 trains per day (plus an early short shuttle at each end). Like the plans for North Wales, it's scheduled for December 2022 when the new rolling stock's arrived.

I've not looked at things in detail, but I suspect running a mix of fast and slow services could be challenging given the need to use passing loops along the line (even if you upgraded them to flying loops with radio signalling).

 

[algytaylor]

And the nearest town to Caersws station, where probably the majority of it's customers come from, has a population of just over 3k, plus you've ignored the surrounding villages, which gives a greater population than Knighton.
And you have to be joking about the bus service!! You quite obviously don't know the area. There are TWO bus companies in this area, neither serve the station, and neither's timetable ties in with train times

Don't think it's that controversial to say Caersws has a better bus service than Knighton personally, if you discount the local Knighton/Knucklas circular.

And where do you intend to keep this unit whilst it is awaiting it's return trip?

You could either build a siding, or reverse it down the Heart of Wales line and use that as an ad-hoc siding

Upgrade the level crossings to what?
And what is wrong with token exchange? It works, it's done whilst the trains are at stations, and it's safe.
And to increase the line speed would need major reconstruction.

Level crossings - obvious example is Llandrindod, which requires the train to stop before the level crossing, prior to entering the station and stopping again. I'm pretty sure trains don't generally stop before level crossings.

Token exchange - sure, it works, but the driver has to spend ~5mins at Knighton station exchanging brass tokens. Despite millions of pounds being spent on radio masts every 3km (?) down the line which could be used to do the same thing without requiring the driver to leave the cab.

Great! Let's ignore the passengers that use the request stops, they are obviously not important.

Surely they're request stops because there's not many passengers there?
Request stops would get exactly the same level of service that they currently do. They're not being ignored. It's not uncommon for trains to skip stations - not every train in the north Wales coast stops at Shotton, for example.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely they're request stops because there's not many passengers there?
Request stops would get exactly the same level of service that they currently do. They're not being ignored. It's not uncommon for trains to skip stations - not every train in the north Wales coast stops at Shotton, for example.

1tp4h is basically useless. In my view unless the service on a line is in excess of 0.5tph (1tp2h) all trains should call at all stations. Any station not justifying that should be closed.

(Odd exceptions like the Conwy Valley morning down, which is essentially an ECS that takes passengers, excepted)

 

[TheWalrus]

You w

1tp4h is basically useless. In my view unless the service on a line is in excess of 0.5tph (1tp2h) all trains should call at all stations. Any station not justifying that should be closed.

(Odd exceptions like the Conwy Valley morning down, which is essentially an ECS that takes passengers, excepted)

You wouldn’t be left with many stations on HOWL then!

 

[Esker-pades]

1tp4h is basically useless. In my view unless the service on a line is in excess of 0.5tph (1tp2h) all trains should call at all stations. Any station not justifying that should be closed.

(Odd exceptions like the Conwy Valley morning down, which is essentially an ECS that takes passengers, excepted)

Or do a North Highland. Every service serves all request stops but (most of the time) trains don't stop. One should be keeping the connections to very sparse rural populations who need a public transport connection, even if doesn't necessarily justify the 1tp2h.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You wouldn’t be left with many stations on HOWL then!

I quote:
In my view unless the service on a line is in excess of 0.5tph (1tp2h) all trains should call at all stations.

Therefore lines like Wick, Conwy Valley etc should be all-stations (request if appropriate) stoppers throughout. Basically, the minimum service at any given station should either be 0.5tph (averaged over the operating day) or all trains that pass that station in passenger service, whichever is lower. If that cannot be justified, get rid.

So on the HOWL all trains should call at all stations (as I recall they do). On the Marches and similar lines, the smaller stations need to receive a minimum of 0.5tph.