Scotrail Super Off Peak only available to Smart Card holders

[Norther Monkey]

I've recently discovered that Scotrail limit availability of their Super Off Peak tickets to Smart Card holders (https://www.scotrail.co.uk/super-off-peak-tickets).

Do any of the resident experts have opinions on whether this is within the letter, or spirit, of the rules governing availability of fares?

I've recently been a little frustrated at not being able to purchase what should be a walk up fare (having previously priced my day out using 'br fares' and other sites).

 

[yorkie]

Are ScotRail bound by the TSA? If so...

If it's a permament basic fare it's not allowed.

If it's a temporary or promotional fare, it is.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Are ScotRail bound by the TSA? If so...

If it's a permament basic fare it's not allowed.

If it's a temporary or promotional fare, it is.

Many thanks, Yorkie, for such a swift reply. However, as I'm not an expert in the fares system could you offer any guidance on finding answers to the questions you have raised? A quick Google produced some rather daunting documents!

 

[Norther Monkey]

Is anyone able to definitively answer the question in the initial post?

I've looked through the documents advised as relevant by @yorkie but am struggling to be sure of my interpretation. It looks like a permanent fare, and appears on all retailers' sites, but delivery is limited to the Scotrail smart card (which prevents the sale being completed on third party sites).

 

[Starmill]

It's quite misleading to describe them as 'walk-up' fares to my mind because as far as I am aware there is no way to get a ScotRail Smartcard in person? They make you wait to have one posted. The ticket office staff seem to refuse to load tickets to anyone else's card. I do not know if ticket machines will do this. A Subway card can be used however - are these available over the counter?

The fares have been available for at least 2 years - I am fairly sure they have been available for longer than that on many routes too - so I don't see how the could be described as anything other than 'permanent'.

 

[Saperstein]

A Subway card can be used however - are these available over the counter?

No, you need to upload a photograph and the card is duly dispatched by post.

I wonder if you can use other operators ITSO cards?

Saperstein.

 

[crablab]

I've recently discovered that Scotrail limit availability of their Super Off Peak tickets to Smart Card holders

SWR do the opposite! They won't sell smartcard Super Off Peak Travelcards at some stations, for some unknown reason.

 

[Starmill]

I wonder if you can use other operators ITSO cards?

You certainly can't use a ScotRail one to buy a ticket from a Northern machine. The staff certainly claim that they aren't allowed to sell tickets on non-Scottish cards. I do not know if it's genuinely impossible.

 

[Saperstein]

Thinking about it I’m sure I’ve used my TfW card in GTR territory before now.

Guess it all depends on the coding.

I used to have an Android phone capable of reading the info off ITSO cards. Shame my iPhone can’t.

Saperstein

 

[kkong]

A Subway card can be used however - are these available over the counter?

Yes, I bought an anonymous Subway ("Bramble") smart card for £3 at Buchanan Street last week.

I also have both anonymous and photo ScotRail cards and a GrassHOPPER card (which is only available as anonymous).

ScotRail FAQ:

Can I put ScotRail tickets on other Smartcards?
You can put ScotRail Smart tickets on the following Smartcards when you buy tickets online from www.scotrail.co.uk

• SPT Subway Personalised Smartcard featuring your name and photo: all ScotRail Smart tickets.
• GrassHOPPER card: Flexipass 10, Anytime and Off-Peak singles and returns, Super Off-Peak Day Return. GrassHOPPER cards are not personalised so you cannot use for ScotRail Season Tickets

You can buy Smart single, return and Flexipass tickets, and SPT Pay As You Go credit to put on a non-photo Smartcard.


However I have previously loaded an off-peak return onto an anonymous Subway card, so make of that what you will.

 

[crablab]

Guess it all depends on the coding.

It doesn't. ITSO compliant cards are operator agnostic. You could use them in European countries with ITSO schemes, technically.

I used to have an Android phone capable of reading the info off ITSO cards. Shame my iPhone can’t.

That's an iOS thing - they don't provide a proper API for the NFC chip for reasons.

What is more interesting is ITSO's new Google Pay thing: https://www.itso.org.uk/itso-on-mobile/

Anyway, for ITSO debate there is another thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/posts/4452365/

 

[Saperstein]

Yes, I bought an anonymous Subway ("Bramble") smart card for £3 at Buchanan Street last week.

How longs that been the case?

When I got mine it was all done on-line and sent out via post.

There was no cross acceptance with ScotRail then either.

Saperstein

 

[kkong]

Not sure, but it's not that recent a development.

But I am sure when I received my first anonymous SPT card (maybe 4 years ago?), it was posted to me.

 

[thedbdiboy]

The regulatory rules aren't particularly clear, but Scotrail is subject to Transport Scotland for enforcement of regulation - it's effectively nationalised, so the idea of any kind of regulatory enforcement is pointless.

The 'regulation' that exists for fares and ticketing is all contractual outside the very broad requirements of the Railways Act 1993 that requires network benefits to be maintained. This regulation was put in to contractualise requirments for fares and ticketing in a post-BR environment where there would be lots of arms-length franchises that might otherwise do what they like with fares and ticketing.

It is ironic that calls for reform for this regulation have generally been met with lots of cynicism about not letting TOCs get away with changing anything; and yet, if as seems likely post-Williams, the government moves to nationalise the setting and maintenance of the fares structure, none of this regulation (which is purely contractual) will need apply, and all sorts of changes to fares, routeing, ticket types and conditions that are impossible under the current regime will be in scope for change.

 

[route101]

Im sure there was £5 super off peak fares between Edinburgh and Glasgow last oct/nov , could buy on website and collect

 

[Wallsendmag]

Some of the Flexipasses are ITSO only fulfilment As well