Could the trains for HS2 be up to 400m long?

[LeylandLen]

Is there a separate thread for the trains that are to be built for HS2 ? I heard they could be up to 400m long , carrying a max of 1100 people ! And what about the anticipated fares ?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there a separate thread for the trains that are to be built for HS2 ? I heard they could be up to 400m long , carrying a max of 1100 people ! And what about the anticipated fares ?

There are a number of existing threads, this seems the most recent:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hs2-the-rolling-stock-bids.183792/
there may be more, but that’s the top of the list that a forum search for “HS2 Rolling Stock” brought up.

There is no evidence (yet) for special fares. Despite this a significant number of critics have regularly suggested Eurostar style boarding policies, again with no evidence whatsoever. But then they probably wanted it to be cancelled anyway...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would be somewhat surprised if it wasn't yield managed train-specific pricing only. I'm less convinced there will be Eurostar style security as that would remove all the time advantage in one foul swoop, and none of the concept "photos" show such an arrangement, but rather show conventional railway ticket barriers.

But onto the subject of the trains per the topic intended, I believe the plan for the classic compatible sets (which is all there will be to start with) is 200m sets, which will mostly run in pairs until they leave HS2 for the conventional network.

 

[AM9]

... But onto the subject of the trains per the topic intended, I believe the plan for the classic compatible sets (which is all there will be to start with) is 200m sets, which will mostly run in pairs until they leave HS2 for the conventional network.

So in effect, the trains running on HS2 will be about 400m long, - just like Eurostar and some other mainline trains on high speed lines' trains. When they leave HS2 for destinations on the classic network they will be split to 200m long, i.e. compatible with current signalling, track formations and platforms.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So in effect, the trains running on HS2 will be about 400m long, - just like Eurostar and some other mainline trains on high speed lines' trains. When they leave HS2 for destinations on the classic network they will be split to 200m long, i.e. compatible with current signalling, track formations and platforms.

Yes, that.

 

[edwin_m]

So in effect, the trains running on HS2 will be about 400m long, - just like Eurostar and some other mainline trains on high speed lines' trains. When they leave HS2 for destinations on the classic network they will be split to 200m long, i.e. compatible with current signalling, track formations and platforms.

Generally yes. I think the idea is that a 400m train will run on the WCML from the north end of HS2 and split somewhere for Edinburgh and Glasgow. This will only have a few intermediate stops on the classic network, where 400m platforms already exist or can be created fairly easily. Crewe will also need 400m platforms so trains can split and join there and run coupled together towards London.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes there will be 400m trains (ie 2x200m) - this is the standard length of train capability for new infrastructure covered by the Interoperability directive for High Speed lines.

 

[apk55]

Most of the west coast line could already handle 400M train lengths as it handles freight trains of up to 800M in length. Only problem is platform length which would be where the problems are.

 

[Bald Rick]

Most of the west coast line could already handle 400M train lengths as it handles freight trains of up to 800M in length. Only problem is platform length which would be where the problems are.

A rather key issue for passenger trains!

 

[Ianno87]

Most of the west coast line could already handle 400M train lengths as it handles freight trains of up to 800M in length. Only problem is platform length which would be where the problems are.

The only major problems are Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street, Glasgow Central, Birmingham New Street and 14 of the 16 platforms at Euston.

Apart from those minor terminals, dead easy!

 

[6Gman]

The only major problems are Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street, Glasgow Central, Birmingham New Street and 14 of the 16 platforms at Euston.

Apart from those minor terminals, dead easy!

@PR1Berske will be pleased that Preston will be OK !

 

[Speed43125]

The only major problems are Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street, Glasgow Central, Birmingham New Street and 14 of the 16 platforms at Euston.

Apart from those minor terminals, dead easy!

Obviously London and Birmingham will have new stations which will remove the issues there. of these Glasgow has had proposals to extent beyond on the Clyde for ages, which will be a nightmare but doable if required. Liverpool is the issue, isn't it the reason that not all 390s were lengthened?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Obviously London and Birmingham will have new stations which will remove the issues there. of these Glasgow has had proposals to extent beyond on the Clyde for ages, which will be a nightmare but doable if required. Liverpool is the issue, isn't it the reason that not all 390s were lengthened?

11 cars fit Lime St, though a limited number of the platforms. The reason not all 390s were lengthened was funding.

 

[edwin_m]

Obviously London and Birmingham will have new stations which will remove the issues there. of these Glasgow has had proposals to extent beyond on the Clyde for ages, which will be a nightmare but doable if required. Liverpool is the issue, isn't it the reason that not all 390s were lengthened?

As I understand it the only proposal to run 400m trains off the high speed lines is the Edinburgh/Glasgow. On the classic route this probably only calls intermediately at Preston, where platforms are nearly long enough already, and probably Carstairs to split/join but this needn't be a passenger stop or SDO could cater for the very small numbers likely to use it. Only half the train will get to Glasgow or Edinburgh.

There are also various proposals to run 400m sets between London and Crewe and split/join there to serve two destinations - this could include Liverpool. I suspect they are being a bit cagey about where these would go, as the obvious destination is Chester or beyond but HS2 doesn't want to pay for electrifying that. Perhaps closer integration of HS2 and NR planning will get round that sort of problem.

It looks like a high speed line into Liverpool might happen because of NPR, and also carry HS2 trains from further south. But I don't think there's any information on whether this would use Lime Street or some new high-speed station, and even if a new station is built the Liverpool-Leeds service probably wouldn't need 400m trains and Liverpool-London probably wouldn't either. So Liverpool may remain limited to 200m trains in the long term.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are also various proposals to run 400m sets between London and Crewe and split/join there to serve two destinations - this could include Liverpool. I suspect they are being a bit cagey about where these would go, as the obvious destination is Chester or beyond but HS2 doesn't want to pay for electrifying that. Perhaps closer integration of HS2 and NR planning will get round that sort of problem.

I believe the second half of that one is likely to go either all main stations to Preston, or there is a campaign to get it to go to Carlisle as otherwise Lancaster, Oxenholme and Penrith will lose direct London services (they are proposed to be served by a 200m train from Birmingham in phase 2).

 

[edwin_m]

I believe the second half of that one is likely to go either all main stations to Preston, or there is a campaign to get it to go to Carlisle as otherwise Lancaster, Oxenholme and Penrith will lose direct London services (they are proposed to be served by a 200m train from Birmingham in phase 2).

I think there was scope for up to 2TPH of split/joins. One could be as you suggest and the other could be for Chester if electrified, and might otherwise just wait at Crewe to attach to a southbound. Or run to London as a 200m set.