Government bus announcement

[carlberry]

More details of the government's plans for buses were announced yesterday which might have lost something in the translation or are as removed from reality as they sound:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51391764

Important bits:

The DfT said that the winning town would be used as a model by government as it aims to ensure all buses are fully electric by 2025.

Assuming this dosent mean scrapping the complete UK bus fleet in 5 years, this does mean no diesel/hybrid or hydrogen cell production within that timescale which is a big call that I'm sure the manufacturers are ready for!

About £70m will go towards high-frequency "Superbus" networks. One is already in place in Cornwall, where a mix of lower fares, more frequent services and lots of bus lanes has proven successful.

As far as I know this hasn't started yet, however it's nice to know it's going to be a success!

The government is also putting £20m towards trials of on-demand buses, which can be ordered through an app

An idea that's been around since at least the 1970s (obviously not being restricted to an app at the time) and has always proved to be expensive to run.

The transport secretary said: "With 200 electric buses able to offset 3,700 diesel cars, it is clear they have a crucial role to play in bringing down emissions."

I'm not sure what this actually means, is it that diesel car owners can now pay some money towards an electric bus to offset their emissions or that for each electric bus 18 1/2 diesel car owners are identified, told to sell their car and have to use that specific bus.

The Campaign for Better Transport's ................. It also called for discounted fares for concessions such as students and elderly people.

This one is really weird, most students already get discounted travel and I'm not sure how you can discount free travel for elderly people!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Assuming this dosent mean scrapping the complete UK bus fleet in 5 years, this does mean no diesel/hybrid or hydrogen cell production within that timescale which is a big call that I'm sure the manufacturers are ready for!

I read that as meaning all (local) buses in the chosen town are electric within 5 years, which given the need to install infrastructure and try things out sounds a reasonable horizon.

 

[Mal]

Once upon a time, there were many towns and cities that had electric traction called trams and trolleybuses. Now the media is singing the praises of these wonderful electric buses as if they have never existed before! The only difference seems to be lack of overhead and trolleybooms.

 

[carlberry]

Once upon a time, there were many towns and cities that had electric traction called trams and trolleybuses. Now the media is singing the praises of these wonderful electric buses as if they have never existed before! The only difference seems to be lack of overhead and trolleybooms.

No town has had a fully electric fleet since diesel buses became available.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No town has had a fully electric fleet since diesel buses became available.

Harrogate is close, at least as far as the local (not regional) buses go. Realistically regional buses will need to remain diesel/hybrid for the foreseeable, though. Series hybrids might at least offer an option to turn off the diesel engine at town boundaries.

 

[carlberry]

I read that as meaning all (local) buses in the chosen town are electric within 5 years, which given the need to install infrastructure and try things out sounds a reasonable horizon.

Having found the actual details it is apparent that the article has changed some of the meaning around. For instance the chosen town wont even need to have an all electric fleet, just one that's certified to very low emissions and the target is a town with up to 200 buses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

More details of the government's plans for buses were announced yesterday which might have lost something in the translation or are as removed from reality as they sound:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51391764

Important bits:

Assuming this dosent mean scrapping the complete UK bus fleet in 5 years, this does mean no diesel/hybrid or hydrogen cell production within that timescale which is a big call that I'm sure the manufacturers are ready for!


As far as I know this hasn't started yet, however it's nice to know it's going to be a success!


An idea that's been around since at least the 1970s (obviously not being restricted to an app at the time) and has always proved to be expensive to run.


I'm not sure what this actually means, is it that diesel car owners can now pay some money towards an electric bus to offset their emissions or that for each electric bus 18 1/2 diesel car owners are identified, told to sell their car and have to use that specific bus.


This one is really weird, most students already get discounted travel and I'm not sure how you can discount free travel for elderly people!

Seems like the usual BoJo spin. I guess that Cornwall has had a bit more money as part of the partial devo deal so perhaps that's what he's saying.

 

[Man of Kent]

Seems like the usual BoJo spin. I guess that Cornwall has had a bit more money as part of the partial devo deal so perhaps that's what he's saying.

For once, it isn't. It is the BBC that has screwed up, the original DfT document states "will be introduced in Cornwall next year" - though in the light of the tender award, perhaps that hasn't been updated since being written in 2019!

 

[radamfi]

Realistically regional buses will need to remain diesel/hybrid for the foreseeable, though.

Arriva in the Limburg province of the Netherlands have been operating 55 electric buses on several regional routes since last summer. They boast that they are the "first real regional zero emission service" although EBS have been running one route (Edam to Amsterdam) on electric buses for longer. Edam to Amsterdam is a fair distance (about 20 km) and runs mostly at 80 km/h (the usual speed limit for out of town buses) on lengthy sections of bus priority in the countryside. Limburg is more challenging territory for electric buses due to the hilly terrain but they are managing 400 km a day.

 

[alphabravo43]

Arriva in the Limburg province of the Netherlands have been operating 55 electric buses on several regional routes since last summer. They boast that they are the "first real regional zero emission service" although EBS have been running one route (Edam to Amsterdam) on electric buses for longer. Edam to Amsterdam is a fair distance (about 20 km) and runs mostly at 80 km/h (the usual speed limit for out of town buses) on lengthy sections of bus priority in the countryside. Limburg is more challenging territory for electric buses due to the hilly terrain but they are managing 400 km a day.

I believe there was another article shared on here the other day that a company will start to run an intercity service between Dundee and Edinburgh this year.

 

[richw]

About £70m will go towards high-frequency "Superbus" networks. One is already in place in Cornwall, where a mix of lower fares, more frequent services and lots of bus lanes has proven successful.
As far as I know this hasn't started yet, however it's nice to know it's going to be a success!

Frequency increases commence April 1st (possibly 29th March aligning to start of week), lower fares pilot is 4 years starting in May. Where are the bus lanes? As a driver I’m only aware of one, a bus gate at threemilestone near Truro allowing us to go the wrong way out of a one way street, and across a dual carriageway by use of traffic lights that change as soon as we pass over the magnets in the road surface

 

[Meole]

Asked the BBC about the Cornwall Superbus and they state it exists and is a proven success.

 

[Busaholic]

Frequency increases commence April 1st (possibly 29th March aligning to start of week), lower fares pilot is 4 years starting in May. Where are the bus lanes? As a driver I’m only aware of one, a bus gate at threemilestone near Truro allowing us to go the wrong way out of a one way street, and across a dual carriageway by use of traffic lights that change as soon as we pass over the magnets in the road surface

There are various stretches of bus lane between Langarth Park, Treliske Hospital and County Hall roundabout, mostly basically created for the Park and Ride initial stage, plus a contraflow couple in the city centre: the extension of P&R to Tregurra Park saw an offside one way bus lane created in Tregolls Road at a reported cost of £30,000 and removed three weeks later at an estimated further cost of £60,000. The biggest 'joke' (though few were laughing) was that drivers of ordinary stage carriage services were told by their employer, no doubt under pressure from Cornwall Council, NOT to use the bus lane in order to give the P&R buses a free run, all 4-6 bph of them! Understandably, perhaps, CC have been reluctant to introduce them elsewhere since: this was 2015.

 

[richw]

There are various stretches of bus lane between Langarth Park, Treliske Hospital and County Hall roundabout, mostly basically created for the Park and Ride initial stage, plus a contraflow couple in the city centre: the extension of P&R to Tregurra Park saw an offside one way bus lane created in Tregolls Road at a reported cost of £30,000 and removed three weeks later at an estimated further cost of £60,000. The biggest 'joke' (though few were laughing) was that drivers of ordinary stage carriage services were told by their employer, no doubt under pressure from Cornwall Council, NOT to use the bus lane in order to give the P&R buses a free run, all 4-6 bph of them! Understandably, perhaps, CC have been reluctant to introduce them elsewhere since: this was 2015.

All of those bus lanes existed before this funding was announced hence not mentioning them.

The Tregolls road offside bus lane meant normal service buses were in the wrong lane past two bus stops. Being a solid white line separating the bus lane and traffic lane, can’t cross a solid line to reach the stops if needed

 

[Busaholic]

All of those bus lanes existed before this funding was announced hence not mentioning them.

The Tregolls road offside bus lane meant normal service buses were in the wrong lane past two bus stops. Being a solid white line separating the bus lane and traffic lane, can’t cross a solid line to reach the stops if needed

Sorry, I didn't realise you were only referring to new bus lanes, because I thought Threemilestone was created prior to the recently announced money?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Arriva in the Limburg province of the Netherlands have been operating 55 electric buses on several regional routes since last summer. They boast that they are the "first real regional zero emission service" although EBS have been running one route (Edam to Amsterdam) on electric buses for longer. Edam to Amsterdam is a fair distance (about 20 km) and runs mostly at 80 km/h (the usual speed limit for out of town buses) on lengthy sections of bus priority in the countryside. Limburg is more challenging territory for electric buses due to the hilly terrain but they are managing 400 km a day.

20km is a bit short for a UK regional service - I'm thinking the likes of the X5 which runs many times that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All of those bus lanes existed before this funding was announced hence not mentioning them.

The Tregolls road offside bus lane meant normal service buses were in the wrong lane past two bus stops. Being a solid white line separating the bus lane and traffic lane, can’t cross a solid line to reach the stops if needed

A bus lane solid line doesn't have the same legal effect as a regular one, so yes, the bus can cross it. However, it would be a bit annoying.

Off-side bus lanes do work but need stop infrastructure with crossings to reach it. There are routes like that in Germany, and it has the advantage that e.g. a taxi stopping to drop off blocks cars, not buses. There are certainly places in the UK where that could work well, such as Oxford Road in Manchester or the Kingsway in London.

 

[richw]

Sorry, I didn't realise you were only referring to new bus lanes, because I thought Threemilestone was created prior to the recently announced money?

I believe the money was announced around 2016, that gate can’t be that old? 2018?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Once upon a time, there were many towns and cities that had electric traction called trams and trolleybuses. Now the media is singing the praises of these wonderful electric buses as if they have never existed before! The only difference seems to be lack of overhead and trolleybooms.

I don't really agree that either are the future. Trams only work where there'a guaranteed flow of passengers, City - Airport route for example and they cannot adapt well to change. As for Trolley Buses, they're pretty redundant now and would be nothing more than an eyesore, again the issue of all the infrastructure comes in top play. I don't see the point wasting money putting ghastly chicken wire all round our town centres when in most cases battery technology is up to the job and development of Hydrogen is gaining pace. Personally Hydrogen Fuel Cells will be the future.