Blackwater - Twickenham

[Bill Badger]

I'm trying to buy a Super Off Peak day return with a Gold Card on line from Blackwater to Twickenham and the system is defeating me!

The obvious way to go is changing at Wokingham which takes just over an hour. However the East Coast Website either wants to send me either to Farnborough North walk to Farnborough Main then a train to Clapham Junction and back to Richmond.

Or the Reading, Slough, Windsor (walk across Windsor) and a train to Richmond.

Both these options charge £8.40 which I believe is right.

When I 'force' the system to direct me via Ascot, changing at Wokingham, it finds the right trains but wants to charge me for an all zones travelcard at £17.30!

Any advise?

 

[W-on-Sea]

That is odd; not least as both the journey planner on the national rail site, and then the SWT sales interface will (for next Saturday, at least) in the first case find, and in the second case, happily sell you tickets for £8.40, suggesting a change at Wokingham. (I checked the East Coast one for then, and it was still just as you said)

But - although this case clearly highlights something wrong with the programming or operations of the East Coast (and similar) sales websites, as these tickets are not for specific trains, and would not indicate any specific routing to be followed, on them (other than "not London"), you could quite legitimately buy the £8.40 tickets from East Coast and use them to change at Wokingham, regardless. (You don't have to specify a particular train on the EC website to buy these tickets).

Buy why the EC website is failing to show the direct option? I don't know.

 

[John @ home]

I'm trying to buy a Super Off Peak day return with a Gold Card on line from Blackwater to Twickenham and the system is defeating me!

The obvious way to go is changing at Wokingham which takes just over an hour. However the East Coast Website either wants to send me either to Farnborough North walk to Farnborough Main then a train to Clapham Junction and back to Richmond.

Or the Reading, Slough, Windsor (walk across Windsor) and a train to Richmond.

Blackwater - Twickenham via Wokingham may be the obvious way to go but it is not a mapped route.

Blackwater - Twickenham: Calculation of Permitted Routes

Ticket: Railcard discounted Super Off-Peak Return BLACKWATER - TWICKENHAM route NOT LONDON £8.40.

Blackwater is a member of Farnborough Group Routeing Point.
Twickenham is a Routeing Point.
Farnborough Group - Twickenham is permitted via 'LONDON' or map WX.
For this ticket, the only mapped routes from Farnborough Group - Twickenham are on map WX and are:

• Farnborough Group - Woking - Surbiton - Wimbledon - Clapham Junction - Barnes - Richmond - Twickenham.
• Farnborough Group - Woking - Surbiton - Wimbledon - Clapham Junction - Barnes - Hounslow - Twickenham.
• Farnborough Group - Woking - Surbiton - Wimbledon - Clapham Junction - Barnes - Hounslow - Feltham - Twickenham.

So Farnborough Group - Twickenham via Wokingham is not a mapped route.

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

Shortest route
But Farnborough Group - Twickenham via Wokingham is the shortest route

Blackwater - Wokingham 6.75 miles
Wokingham - Twickenham 25.5 miles
Total 32.25 miles

Therefore it is a Permitted Route because the shortest route for any journey is always a permitted route (NRG page A1).

This raises two questions:

• Why is the shortest Blackwater - Twickenham route not a mapped route?
• Why do booking sites powered by Atos Origin not allow journeys by the shortest route when it is not a mapped route, when it appears that those powered by thetrainline do?

I will try to find out the answer to these questions.

 

[Bill Badger]

Thanks W-on-Sea I will do as you suggest and thanks John for your comments too.

In this case clearly the 'shortest route' rule makes the journey I wish to do valid, but deos that mean it hadn't been I would have been forced to walk a mile between the 2 Farnborough Station to make this journey.

What if I had a lot of luggage, it was pouring with rain or I was disabled in some way? Is it really the case the only valid route can involve, what would be a significant walk, which would be impractical for some people.

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

You don't say whether this a single or return journey & you don't say which day this journey will take place; However I just had a look at this and I can get it down to £8.15

Try putting this into NRE.

Blackwater to Wokingham
Wokingham to Twickenham

Split ticketing may be the key.

 

[John @ home]

In this case clearly the 'shortest route' rule makes the journey I wish to do valid, but deos that mean it hadn't been I would have been forced to walk a mile between the 2 Farnborough Station to make this journey.

What if I had a lot of luggage, it was pouring with rain or I was disabled in some way? Is it really the case the only valid route can involve, what would be a significant walk, which would be impractical for some people.

For journeys where the shortest route involves a walk between stations, and there is no permitted route wholly by rail, this appears to be the case. This exchange of correspondence between Clive Feather and ATOC is relevant.

Clive Feather to ATOC, 31 July 1998
Question 9: can a journey involve a walk between stations?
http://www.rossrail.co.uk/central/routeqn1.html

ATOC to Clive Feather, 25 September 1998
Qu.9: Can a journey involve a walk between stations?

Some journeys must involve a walk between stations; for example, the fare from Watford Junction to Harpenden is routed "St Albans Abbey" - this must involve a walk between St Albans Abbey and St Albans. As regards permitted routes in the Routeing Guide, there is nothing to prevent a customer using a route that involves a walk between stations (one is not breaking the "no doubling back" rule by doing this).
http://www.rossrail.co.uk/central/routeqn2.html

 

[Bill Badger]

You don't say whether this a single or return journey & you don't say which day this journey will take place; However I just had a look at this and I can get it down to £8.15

Try putting this into NRE.

Blackwater to Wokingham
Wokingham to Twickenham

Split ticketing may be the key.

Thanks for the suggestion, just had a look at split ticketing but unfortunately that wouldn't help

£2.30 Blackwater-Wokingham
£6.95 Wokingham - Twickenham

I did say 'return' and surely with a 'Super off peak day return with a Gold Card' it doesn't matter what day as whenever that ticket is valid it will be the same price!

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

Strange I got the £2.30, but I also got it to give me a ticket for £5.90!

Even stranger I just tried again & it won't give it to me at all!