Hoping the new Northern operator will order more self powered trains immediately

[Bornin1980s]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-operator-of-last-resort-to-take-over.199335/

I hope the new operator orders more self powered trains immediately, including a Hydrogen powered fleet for the Tees Valley. I always thought that Northern hadn't ordered enough self powered trains, especially given the uncertainty around electrification.

That said, I'm under no illusions. Arriva are being scapgoated for the failures of the DFT.

 

[transmanche]

I hope the new operator orders more self powered trains immediately

I seriously doubt they will order any additional new trains for a while.

 

[hexagon789]

I seriously doubt they will order any additional new trains for a while

Why's that?

 

[Matt_pool]

I suppose it's far too early for anyone to give a guestimate as to when all of the knackered 150's that have just been dumped on the CLC line will be replaced with brand new trains!

 

[WesternLancer]

I suppose it's far too early for anyone to give a guestimate as to when all of the knackered 150's that have just been dumped on the CLC line will be replaced with brand new trains!

Maybe in 10 years time?

 

[Andyh82]

I suppose it's far too early for anyone to give a guestimate as to when all of the knackered 150's that have just been dumped on the CLC line will be replaced with brand new trains!

If you are a member of the public that thinks the trains are so old because Arriva are refusing to spend money preferring to send vast profits back to Germany, then I’d expect a new fleet in the autumn.

If you aren’t one of those people, then maybe in about 2030

 

[Aivilo]

Can't see them introducing ANOTHER traction they sign enough as it is

 

[HSTEd]

Well if CAF manage to get the 195s working properly I could see a follow on order immediately after CAF finishes it's other work.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why's that?

Because there’s been no precedent for OLR or DOR before them ever having ordered any additional trains, ie additional to those already planned.

But on the other hand there is a precedent for DOR abandoning plans such as the ECML 180s to Lincoln...

 

[Meerkat]

Well if CAF manage to get the 195s working properly I could see a follow on order immediately after CAF finishes it's other work.

ignoring the ethical issue is any leasing company going to give you a reasonable price on a pure diesel?

 

[ohgoditsjames]

They should order 196's, that way when they double up units they can properly connects them up with the gangways.

Basically what the 195's should have been.

 

[HSTEd]

ignoring the ethical issue is any leasing company going to give you a reasonable price on a pure diesel?

If they won't, just buy the damn things directly.

As for the "ethical issue", the carbon emissions from a small portion of the train fleet which makes up a small portion of transport emissions is negligible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They appear instead to be proposing to bring in some more EMUs which could allow rejigs to release DMUs for other work. There's another thread on it: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...could-365s-be-brought-in.199353/#post-4411806

But if they were going to order more DMUs, I'd suggest in order of preference:
- 3-car bi-modes for the Manchester Airport to Barrow/Windermere service group and possibly others. New, e.g. Stadler or CAF if they'll do one, NOT 769s. This would allow a cascade of 195s onto other services, e.g. the CLC stoppers where the acceleration would make them ideal.
- Additional Class 195 coaches to extend all the 2-car units to 3 and 3-car units to 4. This mix would allow 3, 4, 6 and (eventually) 7 and 8 car formations, which is plenty of flexibility while avoiding 2-car formations which are barely suitable for anything.

 

[hexagon789]

Because there’s been no precedent for OLR or DOR before them ever having ordered any additional trains, ie additional to those already planned.

But on the other hand there is a precedent for DOR abandoning plans such as the ECML 180s to Lincoln...

Things change

 

[td97]

For perspective:
£1.7m per carriage for the Civity order. Suppose Windermere would require 3 4-car units. Thats £20.7m.
10 miles = 16km of electrification Oxenholme to Windermere: £2m/stk=£32m, at the upper end of estimates. If the price could be made to be £1.25m/stk then you get £20m to electrify the lot; quite possible given there's no need for any big electrification kit/feeder stations etc.
The units could now be had for effectively free; the DfT-owed 365s, with a bit of a unit reshuffle/cascade on other routes to ensure the 331s end up on the Windermeres.
The only difference is the tight-arsed DfT have to pay out a big cheque to do electrification, but new train orders are financed so cost the DfT next to nothing.

 

[Glenn1969]

Of course Windermere wires were Graylinged. I can't see the OLR ordering more new stock either but hope I'm wrong

 

[randyrippley]

Why's that?

Cost
You're dealing with a situation analogous to a company administration. Cost control and expenditure reduction is going to be the initial priority. Any new major purchases or acquisitions are unlikely