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'Trespass and Welfare Officers'

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Deepgreen

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I have noticed several stations lately where staff wearing head-to-toe orange clothing have been patrolling platforms, wearing white tabards bearing the legend 'Trespass and Welfare Officer'. Most recently, I was at Basingstoke (yesterday) and there was one on each platform, walking along the lengths of the platforms. Are these staff at only busy stations (and are they full-time)? Who employs them and what are their roles?

See picture.


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district

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Normally agency staff looking to spot those who may be vulnerable and try and avoid them accessing the railway.
 

Surreytraveller

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Probably to prevent delays and disruption by preventing those who cause delays and disruption from causing delays and disruption
 

sharpley

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I've seen something similar at an unmanned EMR station (Syston). Pretty sure they had Network Rail, EMR and whatever company they worked for on the hi-viz as well. They turned up in a van (with similar livery to the hi-viz), did a quick check of the platform and left.
 

lincolnshire

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Somebody,s bright idea, agency staff and van that says in partnership with Network Rail.
Who is paying / budget is this coming from then? In the end someone has to pay for it be it costed into train fares or the taxpayer.
 

Fawkes Cat

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Somebody,s bright idea, agency staff and van that says in partnership with Network Rail.
Who is paying / budget is this coming from then? In the end someone has to pay for it be it costed into train fares or the taxpayer.
How much does a suicide cost the railway (cost A)?

How much does providing these people cost (cost B)?

How many suicides will these people prevent (C)?

If B is less than A x C, then the railway will save money by doing this.
 

Meerkat

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Anyone here been approached by one of these guys?
Being an impatient and curious bloke if I am on platform too early for my train I will usually wander to the ends of the platforms (particularly if it’s a sunny day) for a look around and a bit of peace and quiet. Often wondered whether I am ticking the boxes as a suicide risk!!
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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Somebody,s bright idea, agency staff and van that says in partnership with Network Rail.
Who is paying / budget is this coming from then? In the end someone has to pay for it be it costed into train fares or the taxpayer.

Over the 300 deaths on the railway in 2018/ 19 its not a bright idea, this along with better help and education is very much needed. The deaths are bad enough , the fact they can happen in front of passengers including children and cause lasting damage to them and their mental well being and how they see the railway mean the tiny costs involved in having these people is a very pro active and worth while thing to do and I applaud the TOC's and Network Rail for takin it seriously.
 

colchesterken

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I was pendelo spotting at South Kenton- Harrow & Wealdstone in no good since they constructed the fence
A chap who I thought was platform staff came up and started chatting, When it came up why I was hanging about we both had a laugh it turns out he was on suicide watch...Well done to all.
 

crosscity

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Perhaps it's part of a wider campaign by Network Rail (and the Samaritans?) as I've noticed a TV advert today clearly aimed at people who might be in a place mentally to self-harm on the railway. At this time of year, just after Christmas and the New Year many people will be under immense financial and emotional pressure and a proportion may have darker thoughts than at other times of the year.
 

Bletchleyite

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They were pioneered at south WCML stations e.g. Bletchley, they will tend to get involved if someone looks a bit forlorn or is on a platform with no upcoming services e.g. the wrong side of the fast-line fencing. It does apparently work, just like the fencing does, by providing a visible deterrent - it often doesn't take much to put someone off committing suicide - a physical barrier and someone asking if they are OK is often enough. That said, you very often just see them chatting to the barrier staff at Bletchley and presumably patrolling the platforms the bare minimum number of times needed to comply with the contract.

They don't have that text on their hi-vis on the south WCML, though, they are just orange hi-vis which I think is branded with the name of their employer.
 

Deepgreen

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I have my doubts about the benefits. Suicide prevention/deterrence would require a permanent presence. A person wanting to kill themselves will presumably avoid the orange uniforms and choose a time when these people are away from their part of the platform. If the officers only visit briefly, then that is pointless too. Having spent some time trying to devise ways to deter suicides on LU, I don't see the sporadic presence of orange uniforms being useful. I do wonder though, whether perfectly 'normal' passengers who stray away from the usual busier areas (but still in public areas) will be targeted/questioned.
I was pendelo spotting at South Kenton- Harrow & Wealdstone in no good since they constructed the fence
A chap who I thought was platform staff came up and started chatting, When it came up why I was hanging about we both had a laugh it turns out he was on suicide watch...Well done to all.
Why did he think you were platform staff - were you wearing uniform/hi-vis clothing?
 

Deepgreen

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Over the 300 deaths on the railway in 2018/ 19 its not a bright idea, this along with better help and education is very much needed. The deaths are bad enough , the fact they can happen in front of passengers including children and cause lasting damage to them and their mental well being and how they see the railway mean the tiny costs involved in having these people is a very pro active and worth while thing to do and I applaud the TOC's and Network Rail for takin it seriously.
If you think it's not a "bright idea", why do you support it?
 

Deepgreen

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How much does a suicide cost the railway (cost A)?

How much does providing these people cost (cost B)?

How many suicides will these people prevent (C)?

If B is less than A x C, then the railway will save money by doing this.
A and B can be measured, but C cannot; only guessed.
 

Fawkes Cat

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A and B can be measured, but C cannot; only guessed.
Well, that's all the actuaries out of work then.

Or more formally: it is impossible to tell the future: the sun may not rise, there may not be any road accidents, Jo Bloggs may not try to jump under a train.

But on the basis of what has happened before, it may be possible to come to a good idea of what we expect to happen - the sun will rise, there will be a number of road accidents (but we don't know precisely what vehicles will be involved), there is a probability that there may be suicide attempts (we don't know quite where or when or who, but we can make a judgement about the most likely places and times).

Will we know specifically that something has saved Jo Bloggs' life? No. But in aggregate, if at the end of the year (or whatever the reporting period is) the number of suicides has dropped by more than might be luck, then that will suggest that something is being done right. And if the cost of that something is less than the cost of the disruption that would otherwise have occurred, then we're in profit.

And that's just looking at pounds and pence, without behaving like a decent human being and thinking that preventing suicides might be the morally right thing to do.
 

Ashley Hill

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Perhaps it's NR or the TOC trying to show its being pro-active. At the end of the day it seems more people step/jump off a platform than choose a remote location.
 

duffield

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I have my doubts about the benefits. Suicide prevention/deterrence would require a permanent presence. A person wanting to kill themselves will presumably avoid the orange uniforms and choose a time when these people are away from their part of the platform. If the officers only visit briefly, then that is pointless too. Having spent some time trying to devise ways to deter suicides on LU, I don't see the sporadic presence of orange uniforms being useful. I do wonder though, whether perfectly 'normal' passengers who stray away from the usual busier areas (but still in public areas) will be targeted/questioned.

Why did he think you were platform staff - were you wearing uniform/hi-vis clothing?

Re-read the post you were replying to. It doesn't say what you thought it did.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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If you think it's not a "bright idea", why do you support it?

Sorry in a bit of a hurry to type, as I Was busy at the time I didn't re-read, I feel bright idea was a poor and slightly belittling way of saying it. I very much do agree that if over 300 deaths on the railway can be reduced by even a small number and advice and education also given it is worth every penny.

I hate how little life seems to be worth to others these days, if it was their family I'm sure it would be worth more, quite selfish attitudes these days to those It doesn't affect.
 

Romsey

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Anything to stop a "one under" is worth it - just ask anyone involved in the incident or clear up.
The T&W officers are a joint project funded by NR and TOC's.
Unfortunately at a number of Wessex locations they seem to spend a lot of time drinking coffee in the booking hall.... I've never seen them at minor stations, particularly where there are fast running lines, nor have I seen them out and about after dark. ( A bit like the TOC PCSO's who all evaporate about 2100 on a Friday or Saturday night and leave the passengers and train crew to sort things - and drunks - out as best they can.)
Do they hold track competence certification to allow them to retrieve a wandering individual or do they have to wait for a MOM to turn up?
 

lincolnshire

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I have my doubts about the benefits. Suicide prevention/deterrence would require a permanent presence. A person wanting to kill themselves will presumably avoid the orange uniforms and choose a time when these people are away from their part of the platform. If the officers only visit briefly, then that is pointless too. Having spent some time trying to devise ways to deter suicides on LU, I don't see the sporadic presence of orange uniforms being useful. I do wonder though, whether perfectly 'normal' passengers who stray away from the usual busier areas (but still in public areas) will be targeted/questioned.

Why did he think you were platform staff - were you wearing uniform/hi-vis clothing?

Well said , thats my thoughts on the subject too. If for example they finnish at 22-00 and someone decides that they are going to end it all at 22-15 then there,s no one there then to talk them out of it.
There also not PTS trained I do believe, so they can,t go on the track for trespass incidents.
Not impressed with the idea myself, what does other railways do instead to combat the problem?
 

gingerheid

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I really worry that all this high profile stuff (including the stands from the Samaritans) might just give people ideas.
 

DarloRich

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I have my doubts about the benefits. Suicide prevention/deterrence would require a permanent presence. A person wanting to kill themselves will presumably avoid the orange uniforms and choose a time when these people are away from their part of the platform. If the officers only visit briefly, then that is pointless too. Having spent some time trying to devise ways to deter suicides on LU, I don't see the sporadic presence of orange uniforms being useful. I do wonder though, whether perfectly 'normal' passengers who stray away from the usual busier areas (but still in public areas) will be targeted/questioned.

Our south WCML stations do have a permanent presence but a mobile patrol could be acceptable at low risk locations, perhaps like Syston mentioned by @sharpley above. That said, a visible deterrent of any sort is enough to give the potentially suicidal person a moment of pause or reflection. The brain see this as a barrier that has to be crossed before the act, especially if unexpected. The research I have seen (which may not be public) shows that even something like the wide yellow hatching on the platforms MAY be enough to turn people back.

Regardless of that view the cost and impact of a suicide ( generally but in this case specifically on the railway) is catastrophic. Everyone from the train driver, to the response staff, to the emergency services, to by standers, to the victims family are ALL damaged terribly. Frankly if this stops that happening once it is worth the money imo.

Yes, people wandering away from common areas should be challenged and engaged with by staff. That is the whole point of the recent campaigns run by NR and Samaritans because these people tick SOME of the boxes associated with people who might be considering ending their life on the railway. A very quick question will remove spotters from concern.

Somebody,s bright idea, agency staff and van that says in partnership with Network Rail.
Who is paying / budget is this coming from then? In the end someone has to pay for it be it costed into train fares or the taxpayer.

You and me are paying for it ultimately. Just like you pay for the costs of the impact of suicide. If the cost of this contract stops one person killing themselves i bet it has paid back!

Not impressed with the idea myself, what does other railways do instead to combat the problem?

Why are you not impressed with an attempt to reduce suicide on the railway? What is the problem?

We have seen an almost total reduction in station based suicides on our section of southern WCML after the introduction of visible patrol people at stations. They seem to be there all of the time the trains are running

I really worry that all this high profile stuff (including the stands from the Samaritans) might just give people ideas.

lets not bother then. The whole point is that people on the platform ( like you and me) might understand the warning signs, spot someone in distress and get them help. We might even just ask them if they are ok................
 

Meerkat

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They don’t need to be able to get on the track do they?
Either it would be too late or they get the trains stopped then tell the person that there are no trains so why don’t you come back here for a chat.
You know the theory that a cardboard cut out of a policeman cuts shoplifting - maybe a poster of a friendly person at the platform ends where the Samaritans ‘adverts’ are might just make a difference where real people arent practical?
 

DarloRich

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Either it would be too late or they get the trains stopped then tell the person that there are no trains so why don’t you come back here for a chat.

Absolutely their role is to spot potential people at risk and intervene.

maybe a poster of a friendly person at the platform ends where the Samaritans ‘adverts’ are might just make a difference where real people arent practical?

there is some evidence to suggest they do!
 

Bail

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At Pokesdown station there has been several suicides. There were in my uneducated view only 2 options

Reduce the speed of the Crosscountry trains down to below 10mph. As they pass through far to quickly to react. However this will have impact on journey times.

Or have several welfare officers there during operating hours. Something had to be done.

End of the day saving 1 life is worth it at high risk points. Obviously it will sadly never be able to prevent the majority of suicides.
 

philthetube

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Anyone here been approached by one of these guys?
Being an impatient and curious bloke if I am on platform too early for my train I will usually wander to the ends of the platforms (particularly if it’s a sunny day) for a look around and a bit of peace and quiet. Often wondered whether I am ticking the boxes as a suicide risk!!

I have been approached by one, just a friendly chat, but I am sure he was checking that I was on the statin for good reasons, all we actually discussed was the weather and the crap service but he was able to establish that I did not want to die while doing that.
 

Skymonster

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I have been approached by one, just a friendly chat, but I am sure he was checking that I was on the statin for good reasons, all we actually discussed was the weather and the crap service but he was able to establish that I did not want to die while doing that.
If one approached me on a station and it was obvious he was trying to establish whether I was a suicide risk, I think I’d tell him to f*** off and mind his own business. Maybe that would be enough to convince him that I wasn’t going to jump?

Honestly when is the nanny state going to stop molly-coddling everyone? I get that suicide impacts drivers especially, but in reality a few guys in high-viz are never going to stop them all, and the investment to have them everywhere all the time is just too ridiculous to contemplate. Ultimately someone has fund to their wages so we will all end up paying higher fares or taxes.
 
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