alleged train incident letter

[poiuytr]

hello,

i received a letter asking me to respond within 14 days in response to an incident that happened on a train journey i took last week.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Regardless of what you say, you can see how it looks, can't you?

Others more learned than me will presumably be along with advice, but in the meantime, you can speed things along by giving the information asked for in the sticky thread in this forum (the stations you travelled from and to, etc).

 

[poiuytr]

Regardless of what you say, you can see how it looks, can't you?

Others more learned than me will presumably be along with advice, but in the meantime, you can speed things along by giving the information asked for in the sticky thread in this forum (the stations you travelled from and to, etc).

Oh absolutely I completely see that.

 

[gray1404]

Please can you read the post at the top of this section for forum with the title: Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/please-read-before-posting-in-disputes-prosecutions.77759/

In this post you will see it asks that you provide the following information so you can receive the advice accordingly: -

The stations where you started & finished your journey;
The stations where you changed trains (if applicable);
If you presented a ticket(s), the information stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
The details of any paperwork with which you were issued.

Once you reply with this information you maybe able to receive more tailored advise. Also, perhaps you could advise what the letter you have received is saying exactly.

Once you spoke to the lady, did they give you the opportunity to pay an excess fare or did they go straight for asking for your name and address?

 

[poiuytr]

Please can you read the post at the top of this section for forum with the title: Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/please-read-before-posting-in-disputes-prosecutions.77759/

In this post you will see it asks that you provide the following information so you can receive the advice accordingly: -

The stations where you started & finished your journey;
The stations where you changed trains (if applicable);
If you presented a ticket(s), the information stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
The details of any paperwork with which you were issued.

Once you reply with this information you maybe able to receive more tailored advise. Also, perhaps you could advise what the letter you have received is saying exactly.

Once you spoke to the lady, did they give you the opportunity to pay an excess fare or did they go straight for asking for your name and address?

Hi sorry, i keep trying to edit the post but its not working.

i was travelling from mossley to manchester
on the day the lady issued me a slip that had my name and address on it and somthing about railway byelaw 18(1).

the letter that arrived at my house said:
'a person giving the above name and address was question by a member of rail staff with regard to an alleged incident on transpenine express. failure to respond to this letter may lead to this matter being authorised for prosecution

before i proceed further, i invite you to respond...'

 

[Any_Permitted]

The general practice when a ticket is invalid due to a time-of-day-restriction (off peak as shown here) is for an excess fare to be paid, i.e. the difference between the off-peak and anytime fare. This is likely what you were being directed to the customer service desk to do. As Gray1404 asks, were you asked to pay this the second time?

Unfortunately (as Chewchewtrain said and as you acknowledge) it does look suspicious that you then tried to leave the station after being directed to the desk. The train company would interpret this as you trying to avoid paying the excess fare, hence why your details were taken for investigation.

the lady who took my name and address was really nice and asked me to respond as honestly as i could to the letter, which i am currently doing. I have explained my mistakes and apologised over and over again and offered to pay for any outstanding fares/admin charges/compensation.

Thanks

Your reply sounds really good so far, you are on the right track. I’m guessing the letter is asking you to describe what happened from your point of view? If so a good structure is the following:

1. Acknowledge that your mistake is wrong, but don’t mention anything about your financial situation or come up with an excuse.

2. Make a comment that fare evasion costs the railway a lot of money each year.

3. If this is the first time you have paid the wrong fare, mention this and say that how you acted was out-of-character.

4. Offer to pay the excess fare due plus the costs incurred by the company in investigating your case.

A well-written letter (short and to the point) has a good chance of getting the company to negotiate an out-of-court settlement which would avoid you being taken to court. I’m sure other, more knowledgeable people will be along to offer their advice on your reply.

As other replies have said, some more detail would be useful. Which train company did you get the letter from? Which two stations did you travel between and at what time of day did you travel?

 

[John R]

...the man at the barrier said soemthing about going to the desk, but i wasnt listening properly as i was in a world of my own.

I was in such a rush to get out of the station, and someone was already being dealt with at the desk

There's an inconsistency here. Either you knew you had to go to the desk or you didn't. It helps if we know the true position if we are to give advice, and it certainly won't help your case if any inconsistencies like this are communicated to the authorities in correspondence - as the woman said - you need to be honest.

I certainly wouldn't labour the point on suffering from anxiety unless you could back this up with an existing diagnosis from your GP. They will have heard it countless times, and will brush it off as an excuse often trotted out.

If the reality is that you thought you could chance it, (which is what it will certainly appear like to those investigating) then why not come clean, be honest, and ask for a settlement. They are probably more likely to offer a settlement than if they think you tried to do a runner, are now lying and making up excuses for your behaviour. And bearing in mind the alternative if they don't offer a settlement, best to try and be honest and contrite maybe?

 

[poiuytr]

The general practice when a ticket is invalid due to a time-of-day-restriction (off peak as shown here) is for an excess fare to be paid, i.e. the difference between the off-peak and anytime fare. This is likely what you were being directed to the customer service desk to do. As Gray1404 asks, were you asked to pay this the second time?

Unfortunately (as Chewchewtrain said and as you acknowledge) it does look suspicious that you then tried to leave the station after being directed to the desk. The train company would interpret this as you trying to avoid paying the excess fare, hence why your details were taken for investigation.



Your reply sounds really good so far, you are on the right track. I’m guessing the letter is asking you to describe what happened from your point of view? If so a good structure is the following:

1. Acknowledge that your mistake is wrong, but don’t mention anything about your financial situation or come up with an excuse.

2. Make a comment that fare evasion costs the railway a lot of money each year.

3. If this is the first time you have paid the wrong fare, mention this and say that how you acted was out-of-character.

4. Offer to pay the excess fare due plus the costs incurred by the company in investigating your case.

A well-written letter (short and to the point) has a good chance of getting the company to negotiate an out-of-court settlement which would avoid you being taken to court. I’m sure other, more knowledgeable people will be along to offer their advice on your reply.

As other replies have said, some more detail would be useful. Which train company did you get the letter from? Which two stations did you travel between and at what time of day did you travel?

So do you think I should avoid telling them about how much I panicked and felt I needed to leave?

 

[poiuytr]

There's an inconsistency here. Either you knew you had to go to the desk or you didn't. It helps if we know the true position if we are to give advice, and it certainly won't help your case if any inconsistencies like this are communicated to the authorities in correspondence - as the woman said - you need to be honest.

I certainly wouldn't labour the point on suffering from anxiety unless you could back this up with an existing diagnosis from your GP. They will have heard it countless times, and will brush it off as an excuse often trotted out.

If the reality is that you thought you could chance it, (which is what it will certainly appear like to those investigating) then why not come clean, be honest, and ask for a settlement. They are probably more likely to offer a settlement than if they think you tried to do a runner, are now lying and making up excuses for your behaviour. And bearing in mind the alternative if they don't offer a settlement, best to try and be honest and contrite maybe?

I knew I needed to go to the desk its just that someone else was being dealt with at the time and I needed to get somewhere quieter

 

[Fare-Cop]

There's an inconsistency here. Either you knew you had to go to the desk or you didn't. It helps if we know the true position if we are to give advice, and it certainly won't help your case if any inconsistencies like this are communicated to the authorities in correspondence - as the woman said - you need to be honest.

I certainly wouldn't labour the point on suffering from anxiety unless you could back this up with an existing diagnosis from your GP. They will have heard it countless times, and will brush it off as an excuse often trotted out.

If the reality is that you thought you could chance it, (which is what it will certainly appear like to those investigating) then why not come clean, be honest, and ask for a settlement. They are probably more likely to offer a settlement than if they think you tried to do a runner, are now lying and making up excuses for your behaviour. And bearing in mind the alternative if they don't offer a settlement, best to try and be honest and contrite maybe?

I couldn't agree more.

From past experience, once you had been identified as travelling without having paid the correct fare and had been given the opportunity to go and pay the difference to regularise your travel, by you choosing not to do so, but by seeking 'a quieter exit' intending and almost succeeding in leaving without paying before being challenged, you have made this a great deal easier for the company to successfully prosecute you for attempted fare evasion.

 

[Any_Permitted]

So do you think I should avoid telling them about how much I panicked and felt I needed to leave?

In most cases yes. The trouble is that train companies have generally heard many excuses many times from people who have been caught avoiding paying the right fare. As a result they are likely to take a dim view if you mention this.

IF you have a preexisting condition that could cause you to feel anxious, and evidence of this from your GP, you could mention this BUT still state leaving the station was the wrong thing to do.

As other posters have said, this does look like clear-cut fare evasion from the train company’s point of view. So it is best to avoid making excuses in your reply, and instead apologise for leaving the station.

 

[gray1404]

Which Manchester station did you get off at? Also, what time of day was it that you departed Mossley and what day of the week. Can you please also confirm which ticket you held i.e. from, to, ticket type and price paid.

As a starting point we need to establish if you held a valid ticket or not.