DarloRich
Veteran Member
if this is true it is some much needed extra capacity on the XC network. Can we have more?
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XC acquire two exLNER HST power cars
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Seen a 9 car xc set in Edinburgh.
Mitchell Hurd
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4 plus 59-car??? Blimey!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Not an HST though surely? A 4-car plus 5-car 22x?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
If they acquire more trailers I think they might run them as 2+6.
Yeah , 1308 XC to Plymouth from Edinbrugh.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
They run 10-car Voyagers on occasion, I would've been sceptical at a 2+9 HST though!
Yeah seen a 10 but not a 9 car Voyager
Speed43125
Member
surely 4 HST trailers are more than enough to displace a 5 car voyager? what with the rubbish density on the 22x units.
221129
Established Member
This is exactly it. Nothing more.
221129
Established Member
10 is rare as it has to run with a coach locked out. 9 and 8 are common.
That does make more sense, even if a little disappointing.
I always thought 8/9 coaches for XC or 10 for VT.
221129
Established Member
Quite, but we are only talking about XC.
Indeed we are.
Purple Orange
On Moderation
I despair with announcements like this. It’s like fixing a leaking tap, but doing nothing about the hole in the roof. Any chance of the Manc-Brum capacity being enhanced? No possibilities of some of the 225 stock coming over? Even split one of the hourly Manc-Reading/Bristol services. Anything is better than this. I’d be happy with 1 tph alternating to Bristol and Reading, with 1 tph terminating at brum/cov.
221129
Established Member
Not for quite a while yet.
greatvoyager
Established Member
Do they need some work done first, other them just a repaint?
Journeyman
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That's the only significant problem with them. Enthusiasts love to hate Voyagers, but the only real issue is a lack of capacity on the services they work. If they're not too crowded, I find them perfectly acceptable and will happily undertake a long journey on one. It's XC's chronic overcrowding problem that makes me reluctant to travel with them.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Definitely the main problem. They are in their own right perfectly comfortable trains, the seats are comfortable, they ride well - it's just they're too wee!
The quickest way to resolve that would be that any increase in HST diagrams would then be used to allow for more double Voyager working in the short term. The long term would be extra trains to allow even more double Voyager working, whether that's new build or simply trains going off lease from another operator.
Journeyman
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Definitely the main problem. They are in their own right perfectly comfortable trains, the seats are comfortable, they ride well - it's just they're too wee!
The quickest way to resolve that would be that any increase in HST diagrams would then be used to allow for more double Voyager working in the short term. The long term would be extra trains to allow even more double Voyager working, whether that's new build or simply trains going off lease from another operator.
Absolutely. If a couple of extra power cars enables a more intensive use of the HST fleet, that's a good start. I'm often surprised at how many XC HSTs sit idle, given the problems they have with capacity.
I don't think HSTs are an ideal solution, though, and expanding the fleet risks a repeat of the ScotRail débâcle.
Ultimately, someone needs to take a long hard look at the XC network and ask serious questions about what market it should be serving, and how best to match available capacity with demand. At the moment, some XC services feel like extremely long distance local trains, with a constant churn of short-distance passengers making them uncomfortable for anyone undertaking a long haul.
Ticket restrictions and stopping patterns need to be looked at here. It seems a bit ass-backwards that XC long-distance advances are often really expensive, but that for local journeys they can be really cheap.
I used to travel from Edinburgh to Bristol fairly regularly, but always flew. To pay twice as much to spend six hours on a train potentially crammed in like a sardine, with people standing in the aisles, was not an attractive prospect.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Certainly for the present, and I agree they way they currently use them seems wasteful at best.
Not for CrossCountry, no. For their sort of stopping patterns and what-have-you effectively a longer Voyager is ideal. Indeed something like the 222s would be perfect for an expanded fleet.
Journeyman
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Indeed, I'm rather fond of the 222s - they're very nice to travel in. It's a shame EMT allowed them to get very shabby inside, though.
But yeah - it's been discussed here before - HSTs accelerate too slowly for widespread use on XC, so they'll always be of limited use. IETs, though, go like the proverbial off a shovel, at least in electric mode, so I suspect that, or something like it, is the long-term answer for XC.
Journeyman
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Duplicate post
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Certainly for the Edinburgh-York section, and bi-mode would be ideal for cutting the use of diesel under the wires as well as possibly enabling time savings. With the GWR 80x having their performance in diesel mode tweaked perhaps they would be visible for XC, of not then maybe Bombardier's 125mph bi-mode offering.
As a short-term solution running their HSTs as 2+6 would offer similar performance to a 222 at higher speeds, but would still be slower away from stops and would provide 297 Std class seats still.
Mitchell Hurd
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I know the XC HST's have slower acceleration. However, when I've travelled quite long distance on them, they've achieved roughly similar journey times to Voyagers - Bristol Temple Meads to Bristol Parkway in like 7 minutes (November 2017), York to Leeds (on route to Oxford via Birmingham New Street) in roughly 21 minutes (March 2018) and Derby to Chesterfield in 17 minutes (April 2019).
Hopefully the LNER power cars won't take too long to be rewired in order to work with the power doors if that makes sense. I wonder what the HST diagrams will be in the May 2020 timetable.
In my (almost daily) experience of the Voyagers:
1. The seats are absolutely fine, it’s the high density layout with poor leg room in which they are squashed in with very few tables that’s the problem. A better mix of tables and airline style with better leg room (ie fewer seats per coach) would make for a much nicer travelling environment.
2. The coaches themselves are well designed for long distance travel. They are reliable, and have large windows and plenty of PRM compliant toilets. The problem is that there are too few coaches on them!
A 9 or 10 car Voyager with better leg-room, more tables, another large-luggage storage area and (dare I say it) a buffet offering offering hot meals would offer a fine travelling experience to the long distance passenger with (mostly) the same equipment as at present.
Turning them bi-mode or having them electro-hauled under the wires would also be better for the environment, but that’s probably asking far too much...
1. The seats are absolutely fine, it’s the high density layout with poor leg room in which they are squashed in with very few tables that’s the problem. A better mix of tables and airline style with better leg room (ie fewer seats per coach) would make for a much nicer travelling environment.
2. The coaches themselves are well designed for long distance travel. They are reliable, and have large windows and plenty of PRM compliant toilets. The problem is that there are too few coaches on them!
A 9 or 10 car Voyager with better leg-room, more tables, another large-luggage storage area and (dare I say it) a buffet offering offering hot meals would offer a fine travelling experience to the long distance passenger with (mostly) the same equipment as at present.
Turning them bi-mode or having them electro-hauled under the wires would also be better for the environment, but that’s probably asking far too much...
greatvoyager
Established Member
Perhaps an increase in HSTs used to cover for the fact that they won't be able to hire in any from LNER for summer services?
221129
Established Member
Erm no.
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