CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[krus_aragon]

But that document also says that the lease start date for the 3 car 150's is October LAST YEAR.

It also states that the lease for the MkIV stock starts in November 2018(!), so there may be some inaccuracies elsewhere too.

 

[craigybagel]

Lots of plans have changed already with this franchise, I really woudn't take anything as gospel - or indeed start worrying about how busy the new trains will be, especially the CAF's when they're still several years away!

 

[390112A]

Hi don’t know if it’s already been mentioned on here but I have just been speaking to a TfW guard who called the stock ‘192’

 

[krus_aragon]

Hi don’t know if it’s already been mentioned on here but I have just been speaking to a TfW guard who called the stock ‘192’

That'd be an odd progression of numbers for the diesel CAF stock, given that they look like they'll be very similar to the 196 build. Though looking for reason in TOPS number allocations is often futile.

On the other hand...
Class 158 + 17 = Class 175
so
Class 175 + 17 = Class 192

It's as good a reason as any!

 

[Neptune]

I can’t do with all this new class number for a separate build of what is essentially the same train.

Class 150’s had 3 sub classes from new, 170’s have many sub classes even with completely different interiors. 4 sub classes of 172. EMU’s such as 317, 319, 321, 350, 375, 377, 455, 465 all built as different sub classes. No need for completely new class numbers. Need I go on!

 

[anamyd]

Hi don’t know if it’s already been mentioned on here but I have just been speaking to a TfW guard who called the stock ‘192’

Has Class 192 actually been allocated to what will be that build by the ORR...?

 

[krus_aragon]

Has Class 192 actually been allocated to what will be that build by the ORR...?

If it has, all we've heard of it is the word of a single guard. I'd suggest you view it as unsubstantiated rumour for the time being.

(Sheer conjecture: perhaps it's actually subclass 196/2, and there's a bit of Chinese Whispers at work?)

 

[507021]

Considering the 195s and 196s have been numbered in order, I'd say Class 197 is probably the most likely if they do receive their own class designation, which I personally think they will.

Class 192 wouldn't really make much sense IMO, but then again, when have TOPS class designations ever made sense?

 

[sw1ller]

If it has, all we've heard of it is the word of a single guard. I'd suggest you view it as unsubstantiated rumour for the time being.

(Sheer conjecture: perhaps it's actually subclass 196/2, and there's a bit of Chinese Whispers at work?)

Conjecture, sure.....but let’s face it. It’s the most probable cause. I don’t know where half the stuff comes from. I’ve heard the 153’s are 100% going on the Bidston runs..... but I’m also 99% sure they won’t as they’ll never keep to time. Ya hear all sorts.

 

[Breadface]

Wikipedia says Class 197 though im sure it might be wrong

 

[NewSt]

Wikipedia says Class 197 though im sure it might be wrong

Nope, that's true. Was confirmed on Twitter by TfW a few days ago.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

It's not wrong. All class numbers announced a day or so ago.

 

[anamyd]

@NewSt and @6Gtraincrew are right That's the reason the numbers were able to be put on Wikipedia, and also Coradia175 created individual pages for the new classes, although on the 197 article he for some reason put Cardiff Canton (!) for their depot so I of course corrected it to Chester and Machynlleth.

 

[Philip]

Seems the right time now to have a thread detailing the progress of the construction and introduction of the CAF Class 197 for Transport for Wales. Has work started on building the first unit now and when is it likely to hit the rails?

Also, is there much chance that the 175s will start to go off lease before the end of next year?

 

[BBob123]

I believe the 175s won't be withdrawn until the end of 2022 The 197s will be introduced from the start of 2022( if they are on time ) and i would have thought as new trains arrive old trains will be withdrawn.

 

[Bob Price]

Has work started on building the first unit now and when is it likely to hit the rails?

Also, is there much chance that the 175s will start to go off lease before the end of next year?

Think the WM 196's are first so probably mid 2021 would be the first signs. Understand these will go to the mid Wales routes, Shrewsbury to Aber and the Coast routes.

 

[Cardiff123]

Has work started on building the first unit now

No

and when is it likely to hit the rails?

Mid-2022

Also, is there much chance that the 175s will start to go off lease before the end of next year?

No

https://tfw.wales/journey-begins

 

[Nick Ashwell]

I'm going to hazard a guess and they'll also operate Conway Valley services now that TfW aren't sending the 230s up there.

 

[Cambrian359]

I'm going to hazard a guess and they'll also operate Conway Valley services now that TfW aren't sending the 230s up there.

They were always planned to operate that route once they were built and the 230 then move across to increase bidston service to 2 tph

 

[D365]

Am I right in saying that the Class 196 fleet is being assembled in Spain, whilst the Class 197 fleet will be assembled in Newport.

 

[NewSt]

Am I right in saying that the Class 196 fleet is being assembled in Spain, whilst the Class 197 fleet will be assembled in Newport.

You are indeed.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Am I right in saying that the Class 196 fleet is being assembled in Spain, whilst the Class 197 fleet will be assembled in Newport.

Well, there was a picture doing the rounds a few weeks ago taken from inside CAF Llanwern. They had 195's and 196's on the lines.

 

[D365]

Well, there was a picture doing the rounds a few weeks ago taken from inside CAF Llanwern. They had 195's and 196's on the lines.

Interesting, I didn’t think that they were moving production of the 19x fleets that had been ordered before the factory was rubber-stamped.

 

[yorkie]

Wikipedia says Class 197 though im sure it might be wrong

Wikipedia itself doesn't say this; Wikipedia isn't a primary source.

Wikipedia requires it's authors to state their sources.

If no source is provided then it's arguably no different to a random untrusted person making a claim.

Also, Forum rules ask for a source to be provided (usually a hyperlink, if available) and also for a text quote to be provided.

 

[krus_aragon]

Think the WM 196's are first so probably mid 2021 would be the first signs. Understand these will go to the mid Wales routes, Shrewsbury to Aber and the Coast routes.

The Cambrian will be waiting a little longer: I seem to recall they'll be introducing the non-ERTMS 197s first. (That's the sensible way to do it: debug the new stock without the added complexity of ERTMS.)

 

[Doveymain158]

I believe the 175s go off lease before the 158s as stated above its down to ERTMS

 

[anamyd]

Wikipedia itself doesn't say this; Wikipedia isn't a primary source.

Wikipedia requires it's authors to state their sources.

If no source is provided then it's arguably no different to a random untrusted person making a claim.

Also, Forum rules ask for a source to be provided (usually a hyperlink, if available) and also for a text quote to be provided.

The class numbers for the new fleet were revealed by TfW Rail since then, and the Civity DMUs will be 197s

 

[33017]

Well, there was a picture doing the rounds a few weeks ago taken from inside CAF Llanwern. They had 195's and 196's on the lines.

There are three body shells at the west end of Llanwern painted in dark blue and orange. No idea if these are 196s.

 

[anamyd]

I believe the 175s go off lease before the 158s as stated above its down to ERTMS

With that being the case, I find it ironic in a way that some 175s have received the TfW spec interior refurbishment but no 158s have yet to my knowledge, although on the other hand the 175s had not had a full refurb under ATW like the 158s had.

 

[Domh245]

There are three body shells at the west end of Llanwern painted in dark blue and orange. No idea if these are 196s.

Dark blue & Orange sounds very much like the WMR livery.

But just to confirm, CAF do seem to have moved (some) of the production to Newport. This post about a visit to the factory from the local MP shows a bunch of Northern units in assembly:

Not sure how it stacks up in terms of capacity at their plants in Spain, but makes sense to use capacity at the "local" production site now it's available, should mean that by the time they start on the 197s they'll have ironed out any issues with the facility/staff!