Future of Class 180 Units Discussion

[hexagon789]

They are comfortable. Chiltern is an interesting option. Just out of interest is there any 125mph running on the routes out of Marylebone? If not, could this be looked at in the future?

No, it's 100 maximum Marylebone-Moor Street.

 

[VT 390]

They are comfortable. Chiltern is an interesting option. Just out of interest is there any 125mph running on the routes out of Marylebone? If not, could this be looked at in the future?

I do not think there is, but I would think the only place where it would actually be a benefit would be between Leamington Spa and Bicester (possible slightly further south), this is because otherwise the fast services would catch up to Stopping services quicker which would be a big disadvantage for this route as there is nowhere to overtake except the shirt section at Ruislip.
If there were no 125 sections introduced it would be another reason not to use 180's on this route as it would be a bit of a waste of an 125mph unit.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I do not think there is, but I would think the only place where it would actually be a benefit would be between Leamington Spa and Bicester (possible slightly further south), this is because otherwise the fast services would catch up to Stopping services quicker which would be a big disadvantage for this route as there is nowhere to overtake except the shirt section at Ruislip.
If there were no 125 sections introduced it would be another reason not to use 180's on this route as it would be a bit of a waste of an 125mph unit.

To play devil's advocate, GWR didn't use that logic putting 125mph HSTs on stopping services around Bristol. I think that's more wasteful than having 180s on 100mph expresses. Not that I'm against the Castle HSTs, they've been thoroughly appreciated.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

and their performance got worse once they moved back to crofton. GWR’s team knew the units from new.

That explains why they became reliable from 2012/2013 albeit 2 failed attempts for me on a refurbished one back then - a 3rd in October 2017 when it was a 2-car 165 from Worcester Foregate Street to Oxford around 17:25.

 

[greatvoyager]

That explains why they became reliable from 2012/2013 albeit 2 failed attempts for me on a refurbished one back then - a 3rd in October 2017 when it was a 2-car 165 from Worcester Foregate Street to Oxford around 17:25.

I wonder if there could be a way for all 180s to be maintained together once again. Clearly there has been benefit in doing this previously.

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder if there could be a way for all 180s to be maintained together once again. Clearly there has been benefit in doing this previously.

Going back a couple of years, to before there was any mention of the HT > EMR temporary move, I think almost every 180 discussion assumed the four units would be going to GC. I suspect that is still the probable long term home for them. The GC ECML based routes would still need overnight stabling at a number of different sites, but there’s no reason why all major maintenance wouldn’t happen at a single site.

 

[greatvoyager]

Going back a couple of years, to before there was any mention of the HT > EMR temporary move, I think almost every 180 discussion assumed the four units would be going to GC. I suspect that is still the probable long term home for them. The GC ECML based routes would still need overnight stabling at a number of different sites, but there’s no reason why all major maintenance wouldn’t happen at a single site.

I think it would be good if they did go to GC, and be brought up to standard.

 

[greatvoyager]

Are there any major differences between to GC 180s and the other that make them more reliable?

 

[greatvoyager]

One thing I never understood is why did they put first class in one of the intermediate coaches, as opposed to a driving coach?

 

[SeanG]

One thing I never understood is why did they put first class in one of the intermediate coaches, as opposed to a driving coach?

I imagine so that all Driving cars were to the same design?

 

[greatvoyager]

I imagine so that all Driving cars were to the same design?

Now you mention it, that could be the case. Thinking about it, could it otherwise be because there would be more room for seats in an intermediate vehicle?

 

[greatvoyager]

Perhaps they could be used to test out new equipment for other trains?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now you mention it, that could be the case. Thinking about it, could it otherwise be because there would be more room for seats in an intermediate vehicle?

Possibly partly that, but also because, at the time, most seats in an end coach at 125mph had to be unidirectional rear-facing, and a First Class with all seats like that may not have been popular. (Voyagers have it like that, FWIW).

 

[greatvoyager]

Possibly partly that, but also because, at the time, most seats in an end coach at 125mph had to be unidirectional rear-facing, and a First Class with all seats like that may not have been popular. (Voyagers have it like that, FWIW).

I never knew that. It makes sense now you've explained it.

 

[greatvoyager]

I wonder if it would be worth re-engining them? Probably wouldn't be worth the hassle though.

 

[greatvoyager]

Perhaps if they were all refurbished to the same interior standard as Grand Central, it would be a more pleasant experience.

 

[JonathanH]

Perhaps if they were all refurbished to the same interior standard as Grand Central, it would be a more pleasant experience.

Or perhaps to the standard of the TfW 175s which are better than the Grand Central 180s?

 

[TheWalrus]

Or perhaps to the standard of the TfW 175s which are better than the Grand Central 180s?

Would it make sense for the remaining 180s to join the 175s with whatever operator they end up with?

 

[gingertom]

I'm not a fan of micro fleets that are incompatible with other stock, but how would they cope with a salt water bath at Dawlish?

 

[greatvoyager]

I'm not a fan of micro fleets that are incompatible with other stock, but how would they cope with a salt water bath at Dawlish?

I remember they used to occasionally be used on the route from London to Paignton and Plymouth, and can't recall any problems.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I remember they used to occasionally be used on the route from London to Paignton and Plymouth, and can't recall any problems.

I can't imagine they'd be any more problematic than Voyagers, which traverse the sea wall regularly.

 

[VT 390]

I'm not a fan of micro fleets that are incompatible with other stock, but how would they cope with a salt water bath at Dawlish?

What services could they operate over the Dawlish section though? As the only Voyager's on that route are XC services and if XC did take them on I don't see them operating any North East to South West or Manchester services.

 

[greatvoyager]

I can't imagine they'd be any more problematic than Voyagers, which traverse the sea wall regularly.

They didn't have problems in the past when they worked for FGW, so I'd imagine they would be okay.

 

[gingertom]

They didn't have problems in the past when they worked for FGW, so I'd imagine they would be okay.

it's the brake resistors getting a salt water bath I'm keen to avoid. As the 180's don't have any they should manage with a good soaking. Whether the rest of the kit is up to it is a different issue. In any case there aren't nearly enough of fleet to make any sort of difference so I will quietly park this one to one side

 

[greatvoyager]

I wonder how they will perform with EMR.

 

[hexagon789]

I wonder how they will perform with EMR.

Unless maintenance regimes are significantly improved over that given by other operators, I suspect worse - particularly given the nature of MML operations

 

[greatvoyager]

Unless maintenance regimes are significantly improved over that given by other operators, I suspect worse - particularly given the nature of MML operations

i think you might be right.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I'm not surprised that Grand Central seem to be popular on here as regards where the Class 180's should go next.

10-car workings to and from Kings Cross and York would be useful I'd say.

 

[VT 390]

I'm not surprised that Grand Central seem to be popular on here as regards where the Class 180's should go next.

10-car workings to and from Kings Cross and York would be useful I'd say.

I agree that 10 carriage workings of the 180's to York would be good and maybe some services could split at Doncaster or York to serve new destinations.
After EMR are done with the 4 ex Hull Trains 180's the only place I can really see them going is Grand Central as I don't see any operators wanting just 4 units that will likely be incompatible with anything they already operate.

 

[greatvoyager]

I'm not surprised that Grand Central seem to be popular on here as regards where the Class 180's should go next.

10-car workings to and from Kings Cross and York would be useful I'd say.

I agree.