Train travel in France

[trainfanatic]

Never seen any posts regarding ticketing/routeing within France, so apologies in advance if this is not covered by the forum. Toying with the idea of making our way to Calais and from there to somewhere in SW France (Dordogne/Lot area). Any help in locating cheapest fares would be appreciated. (and yes, I've looked at the ..seat61 website!)

Ta TF

 

[Daimler]

The obvious one (you might have tried it?) is the main SNCF booking website http://www.voyages-sncf.com/ . It will return the cheapest non-splitting fares for a journey you enquire about in much the same way as the UK ticket-buying websites do.

However, having used it a few times I have to say I'm not impressed with the way it's laid out - finding out whether a ticket is flexible isn't easy, and there appears to be no 'SNCF Timetable'...

 

[MCR247]

www.raileurope.com

 

[BRX]

Forget Raileurope for internal French journeys (I don't trust it to find all fares)- use voyages-sncf. You can pick up tickets at the machines in SNCF stations so don't need to worry about them getting lost in the post, or paying delivery charges.

The cheap advance tickets are called "Prems". These seem to be only available on TGV and long distance routes/main lines. For short local journeys you might as well just buy tickets at the station.

Beware that on the TGV you can't just walk up and buy a ticket and be guaranteed to get on the train like you can in the UK - once they are sold out they are sold out. For this reason it's wise to buy TGV journeys a bit in advance.

Another thing I've found is that voyages-sncf sometimes doesn't find all connections (especially if you are trying to do a long journey with several legs) - it will tell you it's not possible in one day when in fact it is. Double-check on www.bahn.de if you suspect it's not finding everything it should.

There's a bit of a myth that train travel in France is miles ahead of the UK - it's not really. The TGV is good of course but you will find that away from the main routes services can be rather slow and sparse. And journeys across the country (as opposed to the radial routes to/from Paris) can be tricky.

Also remember to validate your tickets in the machines at platform ends before you get on the train!

 

[trainfanatic]

Many thanks BRX and other posters for some very useful information. Do SNCF recognise and offer discounts for senior citizens/railcards?

Thanks again

 

[dk1]

I booked through Raileurope & had no problem apart from collecting tickets via the machines at Gare du Lyon. Not speaking French very well & still having problems after pressing the on screen Union Jack it was thanks to some helpful locals that i retrieved them. SNCF seem to be very poor on the provision of customer info staff. Next time i would have them sent to my home reguardless of the extra cost.

 

[BRX]

I find the ticket machines OK to use, but then I can read a little bit of French. I like the fact that you can check train times and fares on the machines at any station - including fares from stations other than the one you're at. Useful when you're on the move and without easy access to the internet. It's better than the UK in this regard.


Another thing: it is worth looking on the Eurostar website (even though it sounds like you are planning to get the ferry to Calais). They do offer some through tickets to main towns in France other than Paris - try Lyon or Montpellier for example. Sometimes the UK>S France Eurostar fare is not hugely more expensive than the N France>S France SNCF fare. Not always, but worth checking out.

Also, if you are going by Eurostar and heading for the South of France it's worth seeing if you can change in Lille rather than Paris. Much less hassle and you save the time it takes to get across Paris. There are two stations in Lille: Lille Europe is the one that the Eurostar stops at, as well as various TGV services. The other station is a relatively short walk away.

 

[Wiggaz]

I seem to remember that there used to be a print at home facility for some tickets bought from voyages-sncf.com. I'm not sure how many routes this was/is available for, but I've used this facility without problem on several occasions.

 

[dk1]

I hated crossing Paris but wasnt an option due to Volcano issues. London Underground is so much easier, cleaner & better staffed than anything here. Makes you appreciate how great us Brits are, even though we sadly put ourselves down.

I have used auto-ticket machines in germany & had no problems.

 

[gordonthemoron]

LU is so much easier than Paris Metro/RER? If I want a sauna, I'll go to the local swimming pool

 

[jamesontheroad]

Voyages-SNCF is the best ticketing site, but of course it may be a little confusing if you don't read French. Clicking on the GB flag takes you to SNCF's other website TGV-Europe which seems to run the same booking engine and on a few test bookings seemed to be offering the full selection of fares and routes that you'd get on Voyages-SNCF.

As already mentioned, book ahead and look for 'Prem' fares - pretty much the same deal as our Advance fares here. Available in first and second class.

You will also see the type of train for your route. Corail and Corail Téoz are loco hauled carriages (Téoz have been refurbished) - and you should when selecting your seat be able to choose between an open carriage or one with compartments. Corail Lunéa are the overnight trains. For daytime regional travel I actually prefer the Corails over TGV - more comfortable and more space.

 

[A60K]

I hated crossing Paris but wasnt an option due to Volcano issues. London Underground is so much easier, cleaner & better staffed than anything here. Makes you appreciate how great us Brits are, even though we sadly put ourselves down.

Out of interest, which cross-Paris journey were you making - some are dead simple, some more difficult, but some can be made tortuous by not knowing where particular lines are underground in relation to each other and the main line stations.

Montparnasse and Chatelet-Les Halles are two labyrinths that can be very awkward to use if you're not familiar with them.

 

[dk1]

Out of interest, which cross-Paris journey were you making - some are dead simple, some more difficult, but some can be made tortuous by not knowing where particular lines are underground in relation to each other and the main line stations.

Montparnasse and Chatelet-Les Halles are two labyrinths that can be very awkward to use if you're not familiar with them.

Was the RER line linking Lyon with Nord. Trains on time no problem there, just dirty & very un-friendly. There seemed lots of passengers confused but little in the way of staffing. The most un-iformed staff where the armed security personel! Last year i used the metro from Auserlitz to Nord & cant say i was impressed with that either.

 

[trainfanatic]

Thanks for even more useful replies....I like the one changing at Lille (to avoid Paris).

We are planning to travel to somewhere like Brive en Gallarde/Limoges or even Toulouse depending on where the accommodation is located (we want to visit the Lascaux caves if possible)

I have looked at the SNCF site and its fairly simple to navigate through and the best price found was about £150 for 2 of us each way....compare that with the low cost airlines!! However, flying involves hire cars, fuel costs, airport parking plus ash clouds and strikes and at £200 a week to hire a car its not really economical.

Did consider driving, but again high ferry prices due to above ash cloud/strikes etc plus the 1000 mile trip puts me off.

TF

 

[Ian99]

My experience is that there's not one source for all the info. As mentioned above, sometimes the SNCF site won't find things that the DB site will find. Sometimes the DB site suggests taking 4 or 5 trains where the RailEurope will find one direct and quicker train.

RailEurope on the telephone seem better than their website. I wanted to buy 2 No. sleeper tickets Barcelona to Paris at the special price of £125 each. The website shows them but won't let you buy them when you try to book them. It offers you the £255 each (approx.) tickets. However on the phone they say, "yes, all £125 tickets gone but there are some £163 tickets"........ In other words, more fares were available on the telephone than on their website. They do however charge £8 for booking on the telephone.

If you can cope with the Spanish, the Spanish rail site - RENFE- has Internet only prices for Spain that you can buy on line and print yourself before travelling...

The more research you do, the better deals and connections you'll find.

 

[trainfanatic]

Thanks for that Ian99.

 

[Bungle]

There's a bit of a myth that train travel in France is miles ahead of the UK - it's not really.

My local line, when I'm working abroad, is Basel-Mulhouse-Colmar-Selestat-Strasbourg.

The Basel-Mulhouse stopping service gets 5-car suburban EMUs. A comparable service in the UK would be something like Sheffield-Doncaster all stops, which gets knackered Pacers most of the time.

The faster Basel-Strasbourg service, which is still a 'regional' service (TER Alsace) is run by 8-car loco-hauled TER-200 (125mph) stock. With REALLY comfy seats.

This is before you even start talking about the long-distance/high-speed stuff.

I'd say in my experience so far, yes indeed it's a little bit ahead.

 

[adc82140]

We are planning to travel to somewhere like Brive en Gallarde/Limoges or even Toulouse depending on where the accommodation is located (we want to visit the Lascaux caves if possible)

Aha!! You've stumbled upon my regular journey- I go from St Pancras to Montauban (Tarn et Garonne) every couple of months...

You have choices...

1- Eurostar to Paris Nord, Metro line 4 to Gare D'Austerlitz and the CORAIL train to Brive/Montauban/Toulouse via Orleans.

2- Eurostar to Paris Nord, Metro to Gare Montparnasse, TGV to Bordeaux/Montauban/Toulouse

3- Eurostar to Lille Europe, walk to Lille Flandres (5 mins), TGV to Montauban/Toulouse

4- Eurostar to Disney (Marne La Valle), TGV to Montauban/Toulouse

I have yet to try interchanging at Disney, my favourite interchange is Lille- it's only a 5 minute walk between the stations.

 

[wellhouse]

If you're heading for Limoges, there's one daily TGV (Morning northbound, evening southbound) direct between Lille Europe and Limoges bypassing Paris, but it can be hard to find on Voyages-SNCF, as that seems to always want to send you to Paris and then on the Corail TEOZ from Austerlitz

The TGV isn't any quicker, since it crawls round the Paris suburbs to Juvisy, but it's much more convenient, since you don't even have to change stations at Lille.

 

[Ian99]

I think Wellhouse above proves my point that it's complicated and you need to do lots of research - I'm off to Limoges in 2 weeks but going via Paris and thus having to use the Metro as I didn't know you could direct Lille - Limoges.

 

[trainfanatic]

Many thanks for all the replies....I'm starting my research right now but it seems fairly straightforward. I really fancy the idea of the Lille change though.

We had perhaps planned to go in June, but may decide to postpone til September when the weather should still be warm and all the crowds have gone.

Do you think bookings might be open for travel this far ahead? We are very flexible, both of us now being retired and we can take our time planning (thats half the fun anyway:roll

 

[ashworth]

There's a bit of a myth that train travel in France is miles ahead of the UK - it's not really. The TGV is good of course but you will find that away from the main routes services can be rather slow and sparse. And journeys across the country (as opposed to the radial routes to/from Paris) can be tricky.

I didn't realise until I was in France a few years ago just how sparse the services are away from the main TGV lines. I was staying in quite a large town (can't remember the name) in a quite densely populated area about 10-15 miles from Lille. I went to the local station to get a train into Lille, only to find the place deserted, and a timetable of no more than about half a dozen trains a day. I found the same thing was true of a number of other secondary lines that I looked into travelling on in the Lille area. In the end I just gave up and used the car.
Away from the TGV even journeys between large neighboring towns which would have trains at least every 30 minutes in the UK seemed to have no more than a 2 hourly service and often with even larger gaps in the middle of the day.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

One thing to beware of in France is the "bus section".

A number of years ago I did a circular trip Gare de Lyon - Nevers - Saincaize - Vierzon - Les Aubrais - Orleans - Austerlitz.

( not sure I've got Saincaize - Vierzon the right way round - atlas is at home, so please excuse any geographical errors in the below... )


The first leg to Nevers was a non stop Corail hauled by a Sybic ( Class BB26000 ). The second leg was a Caravelle DMU. Upon arrival at Saincaize, where the Caravelle either terminated or went onto a different route*, the official connection to Vierzon was a bus.

However, I stayed put and waited for the next train, which duly turned up as a Corail hauled by double headed BB67000 diesels. Needless to say, this train arrived at Vierzon about ¾ hour ahead of the bus!

This meant I could catch a connecting train to Les Aubrais and Orleans formed of a Z5100 EMU, my nex moves were another Z5100 back to Les aubrais for a Z6500 hauled Corail to Austerlitz.


The point is, had I just followed the sheep onto the bus, the trip would have taken much, much, longer - so it is always worth checking whether there is in fact a train before allowing yourself to be forced onto a bus.


* I really must dig out my old notes!

 

[BRX]

My local line, when I'm working abroad, is Basel-Mulhouse-Colmar-Selestat-Strasbourg.

The Basel-Mulhouse stopping service gets 5-car suburban EMUs. A comparable service in the UK would be something like Sheffield-Doncaster all stops, which gets knackered Pacers most of the time.

The faster Basel-Strasbourg service, which is still a 'regional' service (TER Alsace) is run by 8-car loco-hauled TER-200 (125mph) stock. With REALLY comfy seats.

This is before you even start talking about the long-distance/high-speed stuff.

I'd say in my experience so far, yes indeed it's a little bit ahead.

Of course you can find particular services in France that will be better than particular services in the UK. But the same applies in reverse. And it's very difficult to make direct comparisons because there are so many things you have to try and match - populations of the places served; how urban those populations are; connections with other bits of the network; whether they happen to fall on a long-distance route; topography; distance, etc etc etc.

There are parts of the UK that are very well served by commuter railways - the south east for example, and there are bits of the UK that aren't. The same applies in France.

All I can say, having travelled around Britain by train a lot, and in France a fair bit in the last couple of years, is that my overall impression is that it's not really better in France, when you take everything into consideration - at least, it's not massively better which seems to be the popular perception.

I will concede, however, that pricing is better - it seems that it's generally a bit cheaper in France. Maybe not by very much though - I'd like to see someone try and do an objective comparison on this taking into account stuff like average pay rates and so on.

And of course the TGV is great (although it's worth noting that it's not turn-up-and-go like all of our "fast" trains are: they can and do get booked out which has implications for flexibility).