Should Scotrail have obtained some FLIRTs?

[Energy]

170 were a little short but HSTs aren't the correct solution on my opinion, the best would be flirts.

 

[Class 170101]

170 were a little short but HSTs aren't the correct solution on my opinion, the best would be flirts.

Not with a 500 to 600 mile (or so) fuel tank.

 

[Energy]

Not with a 500 to 600 mile (or so) fuel tank.

Glasgow to Inverness is 168 miles and is an about 3 journey, with a bigger fuel tank a train could do 2 trips to Inverness and 2 trips back to Glasgow, by then it's been over 12 hours in service and would probably need to go to the depot anyway.

 

[Class 170101]

Glasgow to Inverness is 168 miles and is an about 3 journey, with a bigger fuel tank a train could do 2 trips to Inverness and 2 trips back to Glasgow, by then it's been over 12 hours in service and would probably need to go to the depot anyway.

Admittedly if it was a Bi-mode Stadler it would operate in Electric mode between Stirling and Glasgow. Less so towards Edinburgh.

 

[Energy]

Admittedly if it was a Bi-mode Stadler it would operate in Electric mode between Stirling and Glasgow. Less so towards Edinburgh.

Indeed, there is lots of electrification in parts of other routes as well

 

[snookertam]

Glasgow to Inverness is 168 miles and is an about 3 journey, with a bigger fuel tank a train could do 2 trips to Inverness and 2 trips back to Glasgow, by then it's been over 12 hours in service and would probably need to go to the depot anyway.

They don't always to get to finish at a fuelling locations. Class 170's on long distance services can do 1600 miles per fuelling and that's a conservative estimate. When operating suburban routes the do 1200 miles per fuelling.

 

[Speed43125]

Indeed, there is lots of electrification in parts of other routes as well

Where? as far as Haymarket out of Waverly? Nothing north of Dunblane is electrified.

170 were a little short but HSTs aren't the correct solution on my opinion, the best would be flirts.

I do not believe there is anywhere near the political or economic will to invest so heavily in rolling stock.
Stadler flirts have had quite a lot of issues too to be honest, people look at other areas and think it's amazing, but there have been a plethora of problems with the 755s, and people saying similar stuff about GA as people here talking about Abellio SR. HSTs have been working now quite reliably since new year which is unfortunately not something that can be said of the flirts.

 

[PG]

Stadler flirts have had quite a lot of issues too to be honest, people look at other areas and think it's amazing, but there have been a plethora of problems with the 755s, and people saying similar stuff about GA as people here talking about Abellio SR. HSTs have been working now quite reliably since new year which is unfortunately not something that can be said of the flirts.

Flirts might not yet be as reliable as HSTs but they've only been in service less than 6 months.
How long have Scotrail had HSTs for...? and we are talking about them being quite reliable since the new year ie not quite 2 weeks!

 

[jagardner1984]

Surely it’s a matter of lifespan too. You are correct there wasn’t the political or economic will for a new build, which is a shame as having spent quite a lot on these trains, that’s precisely what will be required in a decade or so. Unless having got an appetite for removing other people’s rust, Scotrail want to have a go removing it from some 30 year old Voyagers or similar ...

The HST programme is a perfect example of what the lack of a national rolling stock strategy has achieved.

 

[NotATrainspott]

IIRC FirstGroup or one of the other bidders proposed new build 68+Mk5a sets instead of HSTs.

 

[Speed43125]

Flirts might not yet be as reliable as HSTs but they've only been in service less than 6 months.
How long have Scotrail had HSTs for...? and we are talking about them being quite reliable since the new year ie not quite 2 weeks!

HSTs have been reliable, seemingly it's been crew knowledge that was the issue (rumours abound of fitters not knowing how to reset APT speedometers etc), as 40+ year old stock doesn't just become more reliable over the christmas holidays, although it does appear the first few sets delivered by Wabtec were rather questionable, as from the 7th set onwards they've all entered service within a few days compared to potentially weeks with early delivered sets such as HA19.
But had they gone with Stadler, then they would have had no flirts in service for a lot of months, compared to a handful and of classic and refurbished HST sets, not to mention they would probably be given lower priority than GA, we could be talking only the first sets in driver training now, compared to the progress of the HST programme. IIRC there is doubt the diesel gen sets on those will fit through a few tunnels up north anyway.

IIRC FirstGroup or one of the other bidders proposed new build 68+Mk5a sets instead of HSTs.

My understanding was all the other bidders just said something along the lines of displaced stock from the EGIP would go to work for the services HSTs are now serving, which is why Abellio's proposal was chosen as it promised a vast improvement instead of just doubling up 158s and 170s.