Timperley-Lymm-Latchford-Warrington line

[Philip]

Just wondering if it would be feasible to reopen the line which runs through Lymm and crosses the Ship Canal at Latchford, as an alternative route to the WCML at Warrington? I have walked a fair bit of this line on what is now part of the TransPennine trail (Thelwall to Latchford) and whilst it makes a good walking route, the bit I've seen doesn't look like it would need much work to reinstate the railway.

Are there any big obstacles which would make the project not worthwhile and if not would this be a quicker route between Manchester and Warrington than the present two routes?

 

[edwin_m]

Going by the aerial mapping, a mile or so at the Timperley end is now a road serving a retail park and industrial estate. I believe one reason for closure was the poor condition of the Ship Canal bridge and presumably this would still be an issue for re-opening.

 

[daodao]

Just wondering if it would be feasible to reopen the line which runs through Lymm and crosses the Ship Canal at Latchford, as an alternative route to the WCML at Warrington? I have walked a fair bit of this line on what is now part of the TransPennine trail (Thelwall to Latchford) and whilst it makes a good walking route, the bit I've seen doesn't look like it would need much work to reinstate the railway.

Are there any big obstacles which would make the project not worthwhile and if not would this be a quicker route between Manchester and Warrington than the present two routes?

As you state, the track bed is extant as a cycle route from just east of Latchford Viaduct as far as Sinderland crossing. However:

• Latchford viaduct would require substantial repairs to make it suitable for trains again.
• East of Sinderland crossing, it has now been converted into a road (George Richards Way, serving Asda and the Altrincham Retail Park) and there is no longer a bridge across the A56.
• In latter years, it only connected to the ex-CLC line via Northenden, at Skelton Junction, and was solely used as a goods line (mainly coal to Fiddler's Ferry power station).
• The link to the MSJ&A line was removed many years ago and that line itself is now exclusively Metrolink from north of Deansgate Junction.
• Other than Lymm itself, it served no significant population centres besides Altrincham (actually Broadheath) and Warrington.
• The route is very flat and there were several level crossings, including at Dunham Massey station (see photo). These are now frowned upon for new/reinstated railways.

 

[furnessvale]

Going by the aerial mapping, a mile or so at the Timperley end is now a road serving a retail park and industrial estate. I believe one reason for closure was the poor condition of the Ship Canal bridge and presumably this would still be an issue for re-opening.

You mean like Ribblehead viaduct was cited as a reason to shut the Drag.....or the cost of electricity to power trains over Woodhead was cited as a reason to close that route, forgetting that the alternative diesel powered routes were longer and unable to regen electricity.

After years of neglect, I have no doubt that various structures on many closed routes are NOW unfit for reuse but the out and out lies told in years gone by to justify closures were breathtaking.

 

[6Gman]

Just wondering if it would be feasible to reopen the line which runs through Lymm and crosses the Ship Canal at Latchford, as an alternative route to the WCML at Warrington? I have walked a fair bit of this line on what is now part of the TransPennine trail (Thelwall to Latchford) and whilst it makes a good walking route, the bit I've seen doesn't look like it would need much work to reinstate the railway.

Are there any big obstacles which would make the project not worthwhile and if not would this be a quicker route between Manchester and Warrington than the present two routes?

As an alternative to what?

What services would you expect to see running this way?

 

[Philip]

As an alternative to what?

What services would you expect to see running this way?

Well the only other way is over Chat Moss to Newton and Earlestown and then onto the WCML. Question is had the Lymm line not closed, would this have been a quicker route for the Chester and North Wales trains to take, rather than via Earlestown?

 

[Bevan Price]

Given the problems mentioned above, I think the only feasible use for the Lymm line might be as part of a Metrolink extension to Warrington. However even that is unlikely. Firstly, there are several miles of sparsely populated land between Timperley / Altrincham & Lymm - not the sort of area to provide enough passengers to make a tramway economically viable. But perhaps more importantly, much of the area is in Cheshire, whose councils are unlikely to want to spend money on such a project.

 

[Greybeard33]

East of Sinderland crossing, it has now been converted into a road (George Richards Way, serving Asda and the Altrincham Retail Park) and there is no longer a bridge across the A56.

Plus the bridge over the Bridgewater Canal has gone and the embankment west of the Metrolink line has been removed and built on.

Just no. Forget it. There is an extant route from Skelton Junction to the WCML, via Altrincham to Northwich, then via Middlewich and Sandbach to Crewe, if heading south, or via Greenbank and the Hartford curve to go north.

 

[daodao]

Given the problems mentioned above, I think the only feasible use for the Lymm line might be as part of a Metrolink extension to Warrington. However even that is unlikely. Firstly, there are several miles of sparsely populated land between Timperley / Altrincham & Lymm - not the sort of area to provide enough passengers to make a tramway economically viable. But perhaps more importantly, much of the area is in Cheshire, whose councils are unlikely to want to spend money on such a project.

The rural area you refer to is in the Bowdon, Dunham and Warburton ward of the Borough of Trafford, i.e. in Greater Manchester, and has not been part of Cheshire administratively since 1974. From Heatley Heath westwards the line is in the Warrington unitary authority.

 

[Philip]

Lymm is a reasonable population centre and would likely benefit a lot from some kind of rail or light rail link into Manchester, given that it is probably easier to travel by narrowboat along the Bridgewater Canal than to use the public transport currently on offer!

 

[daodao]

Lymm is a reasonable population centre and would likely benefit a lot from some kind of rail or light rail link into Manchester, given that it is probably easier to travel by narrowboat along the Bridgewater Canal than to use the public transport currently on offer!

There is still a regular daytime bus service (2/hour Mon-Sat, hourly Sun/BH) from Warrington to Altrincham via Lymm, run by one of the few remaining municipal bus companies. Lymm is an affluent town, and car-owners are likely to drive close to a stop on the Altrincham line, park on street and take the Metrolink from there to travel to Manchester city centre. In rush hours, it is likely to be quicker than using the eastbound M56.

 

[Greybeard33]

There is still a regular daytime bus service (2/hour Mon-Sat, hourly Sun/BH) from Warrington to Altrincham via Lymm, run by one of the few remaining municipal bus companies. Lymm is an affluent town, and car-owners are likely to drive close to a stop on the Altrincham line, park on street and take the Metrolink from there to travel to Manchester city centre. In rush hours, it is likely to be quicker than using the eastbound M56.

And the CAT5/CAT5A buses are lightly loaded between Lymm and Altrincham.

In any case the old rail line did not go through Altrincham. Broadheath station was a mile away from the town centre.

 

[Philip]

Why did the line close as late as it did? Seem to remember reading that it was still in use even by the 80s, similar to the Timperley-Glazebrook line.

 

[chillyed]

From what I've read, it was a useful freight link that wasnt profitable enough to justify the costly refurbishment of the Latchford viaduct when alternative routes could be taken.

Same as the Glazebrook - Timperley line really, with the bridge over the Mersey at Partington.

 

[jfollows]

Why did the line close as late as it did? Seem to remember reading that it was still in use even by the 80s, similar to the Timperley-Glazebrook line.

I don't know the answer, but I'm grateful, because it meant that I was able to travel over the line before it closed. My trip must have been in about 1980 I guess, on a railtour.

EDIT: 25 April 1981, Branch Line Society (http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk), I started from Oxford and went early to London to catch it, lots of interesting lines and routes...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why did the line close as late as it did? Seem to remember reading that it was still in use even by the 80s, similar to the Timperley-Glazebrook line.

Quite simply, it was an ideal non-conflicting route for Yorkshire coal to Fiddlers Ferry power station, which also used the Woodhead route from the Wath area.
In the early 80s, that traffic declined when FF began to be served on a north-south rather than an east-west axis, increasingly coming from west coast ports.
By that time the Lymm line had been singled and it just faded out thereafter.
The widening of the M6 also destroyed some of the route around Thelwall.
The line had many level crossings and poor infrastructure generally (just look at the dog-legs through Warrington).
FF power station is on its last gasp and closes in March.

HS2 is planned to cross the Lymm line east of Heatley/Warburton, on its way to Golborne.
Plans are in place for east/west HS2 junctions around Rostherne/Millington for a new fast route to Liverpool, presumably on something like an M56 alignment.
I doubt if the Lymm line figures to any extent in HS planning, except possibly west of Warrington on the Mersey flats.
The line was fed from the east via Godley Jn and Stockport Tiviot Dale to Northenden, and most of this route has been completely redeveloped.

 

[jfollows]

I managed to visit Torside, Hadfield, Godley Junction and Woodley signal boxes before the freight service ended, but that would have been in 1978 or 1979, there was little enough of it by then anyway. I don't think the Dinting signalman was friendly enough, but he was probably a but busier than the others at the time.
Then they managed to destroy the line through Stockport Tiviot Dale during the building of the (then M63, now M60) motorway.
And decided it wasn't worth repairing it, given that the Woodhead route was soon to close anyway.
In my last job I could see Fidlers Ferry out of my office window, a visiting American surmised that it was a nuclear power station, I probably said that it wished it were because it would emit much less noxious stuff if so. The coal train from Ellesmere Port to Fidlers Ferry rattled past my office at lunchtimes en route to reversing at Latchford.

 

[Greybeard33]

In the early 80s, that traffic declined when FF began to be served on a north-south rather than an east-west axis, increasingly coming from west coast ports.
By that time the Lymm line had been singled and it just faded out thereafter.

In the early 90s I talked to a Lymm householder whose property backed on to the line. He said that, after the line was singled, BR sold off strips of land to enable people to extend their back gardens. And by the time the line closed in 1985, the coal traffic had declined to just one or two trains per day.

 

[6Gman]

Well the only other way is over Chat Moss to Newton and Earlestown and then onto the WCML. Question is had the Lymm line not closed, would this have been a quicker route for the Chester and North Wales trains to take, rather than via Earlestown?

1. Try finding a path between Manchester and Stockport.
2. Ditto for the Edgeley Junction to Northenden Junction single track.
3. How would you serve Warrington?