GWR mobile app tickets on the Underground and GA

[Cardiff123]

I'm travelling from Cardiff to Chelmsford this weekend (via the many diversions and replacement buses that are running )

Can someone tell me if the ticket barriers on the Underground and at Chelmsford have barcode scanners, if I buy my ticket on the GWR app? If the Underground doesn't have barcode scanners, I assume I'll have to show my phone to an attendant to get through the barriers on the Underground?
I have done this journey before but I've always had a paper ticket so I've not payed much attention to whether there were barcode scanners at the barriers on the Underground.

If I have to do that I might not bother with the GWR app and get a paper ticket.

Thanks

 

[Paul Kelly]

e-tickets and m-tickets are not accepted on the London Underground. For that reason I would doubt that the GWR app will even offer you a ticket in the app - have you evidence that it does?

 

[Cardiff123]

e-tickets and m-tickets are not accepted on the London Underground. For that reason I would doubt that the GWR app will even offer you a ticket in the app - have you evidence that it does?

Yep, it will allow me to buy a Super Off Peak Return from Cardiff Central to Chelmsford in the GWR app. I haven't got as far as saying how I want the ticket though, whether it's in the app or to pick up as a paper ticket.

Tbh I'm very surprised that e-tickets or m-tickets are not accepted o the Underground, given that TfL prides itself on being at the forefront of ticketing technology

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yep, it will allow me to buy a Super Off Peak Return from Cardiff Central to Chelmsford in the GWR app. I haven't got as far as saying how I want the ticket though, whether it's in the app or to pick up as a paper ticket.

If you do go that far it will only offer ToD i.e. a paper ticket.

 

[Cardiff123]

If you do go that far it will only offer ToD i.e. a paper ticket.

Yes I've just gone that far now, it only offered a paper ticket. Why won't TfL accept mobile or e-tickets on the Underground? Is it due to the cost of installing barcode scanners at every station?
(also what does ToD stand for?)
Thanks

 

[paul1609]

Yes I've just gone that far now, it only offered a paper ticket. Why won't TfL accept mobile or e-tickets on the Underground? Is it due to the cost of installing barcode scanners at every station?
(also what does ToD stand for?)
Thanks

E tickets and M tickets are not available for many journeys in the South East. If the rail TOCs want Tfl to accept them its up to the TOCs to fund the cost of upgrading the barriers and back end systems. This is a not a small consideration Id imagine.

 

[alistairlees]

Yes I've just gone that far now, it only offered a paper ticket. Why won't TfL accept mobile or e-tickets on the Underground? Is it due to the cost of installing barcode scanners at every station?
(also what does ToD stand for?)
Thanks

ToD means Ticket on Departure and refers to tickets that are collected from a ticket vending machine at a station using an 8-character code.

 

[alistairlees]

Yes I've just gone that far now, it only offered a paper ticket. Why won't TfL accept mobile or e-tickets on the Underground? Is it due to the cost of installing barcode scanners at every station?
(also what does ToD stand for?)
Thanks

Besides cost there are other considerations, such as gate line throughout. Presenting barcodes is (apparently) twice as slow as tapping an Oyster card or contactless bank card. So it could cause congestion and / or safety issues.

Barcode scanners would not really need to be installed at every London Underground station, just those where interchange with national rail takes place.

Cost is a significant issue here as well, but it’s not the showstopper.

 

[paul1609]

Barcode scanners would not really need to be installed at every London Underground station, just those where interchange with national rail takes place.

Only if you withdraw tickets to/from U Zones and all travel cards. Destinations like Heathrow and London City Airport.

 

[alistairlees]

Only if you withdraw tickets to/from U Zones and all travel cards. Destinations like Heathrow and London City Airport.

I really was just referring to Cross-London journeys, as the OP was making a cross-London journey.

 

[paul1609]

I really was just referring to Cross-London journeys, as the OP was making a cross-London journey.

I would imagine that the revenue from "+" tickets alone would never make a reasonable business case. I make a lot of cross London Journeys but hardly ever use through tickets because they are generally too expensive.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I make a lot of cross London Journeys but hardly ever use through tickets because they are generally too expensive.

With respect, the percentage of National Rail journeys across London where passengers use split tickets because it's cheaper is still minimal. Perhaps a couple of percent at most.

The percentage split using the likes of Oyster or contactless to complete the London Underground/other cross-London element is likely to be quite a bit higher, but that's probably more likely because a lot of people aren't aware you can use National Rail tickets on the Underground in certain circumstances, or they think it's simpler, or it's simply a force of habit. It simply doesn't occur to most people that it might be cheaper to split.

 

[paul1609]

With respect, the percentage of National Rail journeys across London where passengers use split tickets because it's cheaper is still minimal. Perhaps a couple of percent at most.

The percentage split using the likes of Oyster or contactless to complete the London Underground/other cross-London element is likely to be quite a bit higher, but that's probably more likely because a lot of people aren't aware you can use National Rail tickets on the Underground in certain circumstances, or they think it's simpler, or it's simply a force of habit. It simply doesn't occur to most people that it might be cheaper to split.

Sorry thats simply not correct. There is no way that the rail industry can come up with figures as unless you buy the tickets together from the same retailer there is no way of tying the journeys together.
Take me for instance, on Sunday Im travelling to Bletchley from Headcorn for football. I'll buy a Super Off Peak return to London Terminals alight at London Bridge use contactless on the tube and then buy a super off peak return at Euston saving nearly a tenner on the through ticket.
People that live in the SouthEast are savvy to this, maybe the occasional traveller from some remote location in the West Country not so, but its the south -east area that will be making most cross London Journeys.

 

[Cardiff123]

I would imagine that the revenue from "+" tickets alone would never make a reasonable business case. I make a lot of cross London Journeys but hardly ever use through tickets because they are generally too expensive.

For me, a super off peak return from Cardiff to Chelmsford is actually much cheaper than splitting the tickets in London. If I am able to book in advance, an Advance ticket for Cardiff to Chelmsford can be just £14 as a through ticket.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Besides cost there are other considerations, such as gate line throughout. Presenting barcodes is (apparently) twice as slow as tapping an Oyster card or contactless bank card. So it could cause congestion and / or safety issues.

Barcode scanners would not really need to be installed at every London Underground station, just those where interchange with national rail takes place.

Cost is a significant issue here as well, but it’s not the showstopper.

No I'd go with cost given their stance on National Rail Smart Tickets

 

[paul1609]

No I'd go with cost given their stance on National Rail Smart Tickets

Its definitely cost, safety concerns can usually be overcome at a cost.
I understand that the estimated costs are eyewatering and its only likely to be resolved by a grant from central government or a huge contribution from the National Rail TOCs. TFLs preferred option is to do nothing.

 

[matt_world2004]

Yes I've just gone that far now, it only offered a paper ticket. Why won't TfL accept mobile or e-tickets on the Underground? Is it due to the cost of installing barcode scanners at every station?
(also what does ToD stand for?)
Thanks

The time it takes to scan the barcode on the barriers is too long for the amount of passengers that London underground get. Originally contactless cards processing time was too long too, but it was sped up.

 

[alistairlees]

The cost of fitting barcode readers is indeed high, but this can be overcome by spending money.

The time that it takes passengers to scan barcode tickets is also too high - throughput compared with contactless is about half. This is human behaviour - fumble factor, phones going blank when turned over, phone rotation issues etc. This cannot easily or certainly be overcome. Passengers are unlikely to scan barcodes any quicker. As long as this problem remains then it is the throughput problem that is the issue. Simply adding more gates is not physically possible at most underground stations; they are already cramped.

A combination of barcode and nfc may be the solution.

 

[Wallsendmag]

The cost of fitting barcode readers is indeed high, but this can be overcome by spending money.

The time that it takes passengers to scan barcode tickets is also too high - throughput compared with contactless is about half. This is human behaviour - fumble factor, phones going blank when turned over, phone rotation issues etc. This cannot easily or certainly be overcome. Passengers are unlikely to scan barcodes any quicker. As long as this problem remains then it is the throughput problem that is the issue. Simply adding more gates is not physically possible at most underground stations; they are already cramped.

A combination of barcode and nfc may be the solution.

So why were TfL so reluctant to accept National Rail ITSO then ? Could it be down to increased operating costs ?

 

[matt_world2004]

So why were TfL so reluctant to accept National Rail ITSO then ? Could it be down to increased operating costs ?

They do accept national rail ITSO according to their ticketing and revenue book.

 

[Wallsendmag]

They do accept national rail ITSO according to their ticketing and revenue book.

Were as in past tense.

 

[matt_world2004]

Were as in past tense.

Well how long did they not accept ITSO tickets for was it a year, longer because I remember them being pretty much accepted instantly. There were issues with getting inspectors to recognise them at first , bit certainly from introduction on the NR services to TfL service acceptance it was months

 

[Wallsendmag]

Well how long did they not accept ITSO tickets for was it a year, longer because I remember them being pretty much accepted instantly. There were issues with getting inspectors to recognise them at first , bit certainly from introduction on the NR services to TfL service acceptance it was months

Some are only going live from 1st Jan