Airport services

[Glenn1969]

I would serve Manchester Airport with 14tph

These would be as follows

1tph Airport- Crewe- Chester and North Wales Coast
1tph Airport- Crewe- Hartford- Runcorn- Liverpool Lime Street
1tph Airport- Crewe- Stoke- Derby

1tph Airport- Manchester- Stockport- Sheffield
2tph Airport- Manchester- Leeds- Huddersfield- Leeds- York- Middlesbrough/Newcastle
1tph Airport- Manchester- Bolton- Preston- Blackpool
2tph Airport- Manchester- Wigan- Preston- Lancaster- Barrow / Carlisle- Edinburgh/Glasgow
1tph Airport- Manchester- Rochdale- Halifax- Bradford
1tph Airport- Manchester- Warrington- Liverpool
3tph Airport- Manchester local stopping service

I would remove the current Chat Moss service and the Llandudno service from Castlefield

Wonder what people think of these plans?

 

[randyrippley]

So are you suggesting the Barrow and Scottish routes split at Preston or Lancaster?
Going to be hard with Barrow diesel and the Scots trains electric

 

[Glenn1969]

No I'm suggesting 2tph to Lancaster than hourly for each beyond Lancaster

 

[Energy]

So are you suggesting the Barrow and Scottish routes split at Preston or Lancaster?
Going to be hard with Barrow diesel and the Scots trains electric

bimode is always an option, bombardier offer a bimode aventra. I would suggest using something like a 172/2 or /3 and an electrostar but neither are in production.

 

[JonathanH]

Wonder what people think of these plans?

There isn't capacity at the Airport station for all of this, or on the line into Manchester for 3tph stopping services. That is why they do skip stopping on the longer distance trains and only run an hourly all stations stopper between Manchester and the Airport.

 

[Howardh]

I suggest an airport at Bolton, with direct flights to Manchester Airport.

Someone mucked it up big time when Blackpool Airport could have taken a lot of the Manchester airport holiday traffic, and now it's a mere shell of itself. I'm sure had they thought it through Blackpool could have taken thousands to the Costas and Balearics from the local area, me included, so much less hassle than Manchester £££'s Airport.

 

[Aictos]

Does Manchester actually need 14tph to its airport?

 

[Howardh]

Does Manchester actually need 14tph to its airport?

10 minute shuttle from Piccadilly would do. Always wanted Mayfield to be re-opened as a terminal for a dedicated Manchester-Airport shuttle, with a link to Piccadilly.

 

[Energy]

Maybe they could use doubled up 185s on a frequent shuttle from Manchester to the airport.

 

[daodao]

I would serve Manchester Airport with 14tph. These would be as follows...

Excessive (for the need) and undeliverable. However, I agree with the provision of a more frequent stopping service between Piccadilly and the Airport. I suggest a 4 tph all stations stopping service, with 4 tph express leaving just before the stopping service - all services should be run by Northern and should not extend outside NW England/West Riding.

 

[js1000]

Abolishing the unreliable Liverpool to Crewe via Airport introduced in May 2018 would be a welcome change. However an airport shuttle would have to continue onto Crewe to create a journey to/from Wilmslow which (despite its small town size) is a major employer in south Manchester. This is a franchise requirement as it was for the previous franchise.

14tph - 3 of switch to be stoppers - seems unrealistic. Due to capacity restraints through Manchester and on the Styal Line the priority in the short to medium term has to be minimal number of services, longer trains and removal of conflicting movements.

The biggest problem is with the stopping services - 3tph local stopping services would create capacity problems as it would hold up the fast TPE & freight trains behind. Pre-May 2018 it was 2tph stoppers - now it is only 1 to allow for sufficient capacity for fast trains.

Aside from the hourly local stopper, to unlock capacity I would designate a second fast journey for each station on the line as follows:

Mauldeth Road: Liverpool (Northern Fast)
Burnage: Blackpool (Northern Fast)
East Didsbury: Edinburgh (TPE)
Gatley: Redcar Central (TPE)
Heald Green: Newcastle (TPE)

At the moment this is a hodge podge that isn't well resolved - frequency patterns are irregular and unattractive. At peak times I would make this 3tph with 1no. additional stop for the fast services.

The difficulty would be Northern getting TPE to do this. A stop of two would allow for TPE some 'padding' allowance along the route but who shares the revenue and if TPE don't get a cut there is no incentive to increase journey times for little reason.

The sad irony is that if the Liverpool and Blackpool never moved from TPE to Northern on 2016 this would have probably been resolved! The 2016 franchise agreement agreed with Northern and TPE appears more of a badly-thought disaster by the day and has certainly let down commuters on this line.

 

[Aictos]

10 minute shuttle from Piccadilly would do. Always wanted Mayfield to be re-opened as a terminal for a dedicated Manchester-Airport shuttle, with a link to Piccadilly.

A 15 minute frequency would suffice with a train ready to board at both terminus all the time.

A 10 minute frequency is daft and not needed.

 

[Howardh]

A 15 minute frequency would suffice with a train ready to board at both terminus all the time.
A 10 minute frequency is daft and not needed.

Think the trams are every six minutes?

 

[Aictos]

Think the trams are every six minutes?

Different mode of transport altogether though.

The Heathrow Express and Gatwick Express both operate a 15 minute frequency and they’re far busier then Manchester so I believe if the pathing was available then a 15 minute frequency is more then enough to have 4tph between Piccadilly and the Airport as a shuttle especially if you consider the Airport services to other destinations that also serve Piccadilly.

 

[Howardh]

Different mode of transport altogether though.

Tempted to say "so what?"!! It's on rails!! But seriously, if the tram's around and can take some of the pax that would use the railway, then it takes the pressure off the need to run trains as frequently. On the negative side, as it takes so long for the tram to wind it's way to Manchester the tram is only really a local service, so it takes those that wouldn't use the railway in the first place.
Love to know the pax numbers annually who catch the tram from Deansgate or further afield and go to the airport in comparison with heavy rail.

 

[VT 390]

Think the trams are every six minutes?

I thought the Metrolink was only every 12 minutes on the Victoria to Airport services?

 

[Howardh]

I thought the Metrolink was only every 12 minutes on the Victoria to Airport services?

Not sure, the TFGM website is most unhelpful with that information, all it says is the Ashton line is 6' and all the others 12'.....I dunno if the Ashton line goes to the Airport? But 12' is a better frequency than the trains?

 

[VT 390]

Not sure, the TFGM website is most unhelpful with that information, all it says is the Ashton line is 6' and all the others 12'.....I dunno if the Ashton line goes to the Airport? But 12' is a better frequency than the trains?

The Ashton Trams go through to Eccles and Media City UK with the Airport services terminating at Victoria, I think in the future they may be planning a 6 minute service to the Airport at certain times of the day.
Even though the trams are more frequent than the trains unless the Metrolink goes to someones exact location I think most people would pick the train (when I took the tram from to the Airport I was the only one doing it from central Manchester as everyone else either got on/off at intermediate stops) also it is much quicker and if it were a shuttle service to Piccadilly onward connections would be easier by train.

 

[Glenn1969]

3 of the 14tph go to Wilmslow and Crewe

3 stoppers out of the other 11 gives these stations a 20 minute frequency to Manchester and for local journeys and allows the other 8 to run non stop to Manchester which is what I think most long distance and Manchester passengers would welcome. Cut the stopping service to 2 if you like

 

[markymark2000]

The Piccadilly - Crewe via Airport could just be the exact same as what we had pre 2018. Divert the Liverpool Electric into Victoria and then run from Picc Main shed to Crewe via Airport and Wilmslow. This is then 1 less train on the castlefield corridor and it keeps the two services separate.