Marginal time trains - what would you add in 2020?

[adamedwards]

British Rail used to creatively use marginal time in the Inter City fleet to add through trains in the morning and evening, the Highland Chieftan being created from a train which otherwise would have terminated at Edinburgh.

With the growth in numbers of bi-mode trains it strikes me their could be more opportunities for this. So what would you bring back?

My hope is we might see a Windermere - London and return using marginal time in one of the new trains Avanti are buying. But I am sure you will all have better/more fun ideas.

 

[6Gman]

Given the current state of numerous TOCs perhaps we should be increasing margins, not tightening them?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, this. No extra services, the system is creaking as it is.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

British Rail used to creatively use marginal time in the Inter City fleet to add through trains in the morning and evening, the Highland Chieftan being created from a train which otherwise would have terminated at Edinburgh.

With the growth in numbers of bi-mode trains it strikes me their could be more opportunities for this. So what would you bring back?

My hope is we might see a Windermere - London and return using marginal time in one of the new trains Avanti are buying. But I am sure you will all have better/more fun ideas.

CrossCountry to Poole vice long wait at Bournemouth

 

[The Planner]

CrossCountry to Poole vice long wait at Bournemouth

Too tight performance and reliability wise. XC normally arrives xx.13, would leave xx.15. It takes 8½ minutes to Poole so would arrive at xx.24 (you can't terminate on a half minute). If the next service leaves Bournemouth at xx.45, working back means it has to arrive at xx.43, take 9 minutes for the run from Poole means departing at xx.34. Leaves a 10 minute compliant turnaround at Poole. As soon as something gets delayed that Poole stop would get binned and they would spin the train at Bournemouth.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding marginal time trains, this has got me thinking from the angle of extending some services on Saturdays and Sundays in July and August as an experiment (subject to stock availability, driver route knowledge, engineering works, etc).

The Manchester - Bournemouth extended to Weymouth. I believe this was done during the 2012 London Olympics.

The odd London Euston - Lancaster terminating trains to run to and from Barrow in Furness. Obviously, this would have to wait for either new bimodes or for overhead wires to reach Barrow.

Those are a couple I can think of at this moment in time.

 

[JonathanH]

The Manchester - Bournemouth extended to Weymouth. I believe this was done during the 2012 London Olympics.

With the single track section the route to Weymouth does not have a lot of spare capacity and it wouldn't be a good use of a Voyager.

Even in marginal time, extending the last Bournemouth starter back to Weymouth or first Bournemouth finisher to Weymouth involves a lot of dead running from Eastleigh where they are overnight.

 

[swt_passenger]

CrossCountry to Poole vice long wait at Bournemouth

Cross country to Poole wouldn’t work unless other timings in the south are completely altered. The Planner has explained why, but it was also attempted unsuccessfully as part of Operation Princess, so there’s ample evidence already to show it wouldn’t work.

However, what you’re suggesting isn’t really using “marginal time”, but using up existing turnround time. Using marginal time usually implies a train that would otherwise be heading to or from a depot.

 

[adamedwards]

My latest thought is the early morning XC trains could call at Worcester Parkway with some tweaking of departures and return in the evening.
In the good old days there was a marginal time run to and from Ayr by a loco hauled set for London. Now a pendolino to Ayr could be fun.

 

[Mag_seven]

In the good old days there was a marginal time run to and from Ayr by a loco hauled set for London. Now a pendolino to Ayr could be fun.

That was only possible because back then it was all "one railway" - I can't imagine Scotrail being too keen on Avanti extracting some of their Glasgow-Ayr income.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

That was only possible because back then it was all "one railway" - I can't imagine Scotrail being too keen on Avanti extracting some of their Glasgow-Ayr income.

"One railway" did not need things like Track Access charges and amendents to safety cases ! - all of which cost money and management time , making very marginal extensions less feasible.

I like the idea of "something " to Barrow .......

 

[Bletchleyite]

I like the idea of "something " to Barrow .......

I like the idea of a punctual, reliable service with sufficient capacity, not silly little off-pattern conquests on the side.

There should be an outright ban on additional train mileage (not unit/coach mileage, but timetabled service mileage) for any TOC whose punctuality and reliability are not both consistently over 95%.

 

[Bald Rick]

That was only possible because back then it was all "one railway" - I can't imagine Scotrail being too keen on Avanti extracting some of their Glasgow-Ayr income.

Not so much ‘one railway’, and more because long distance rolling stock was not used as efficiently as it is now. With a two hourly service to Glasgow, and a variety of stock / locos etc. there would have been plenty of marginal time; with increased frequencies and standard stock it is much easier to make rolling stock efficiencies.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I like the idea of a punctual, reliable service with sufficient capacity, not silly little off-pattern conquests on the side.

There should be an outright ban on additional train mileage (not unit/coach mileage, but timetabled service mileage) for any TOC whose punctuality and reliability are not both consistently over 95%.

Disagree - Barrow is not a small hamlet , has no real direct connections to London anymore - and on the basis of some WC services turning around at Lancaster (or they did not so long ago) - a targeted extension on the Furness lines might well be possible. They are not particularly stressed ....

The sort of thing , as a relatively simple extension of "core" services - could add some real value. Bit like Shrewsbury from Wolves ...(done by clever work on diagrams)

On the basis of our PM's new interest in the Midlands and North , who supported him so well - sort of thing that could be explored and dare I say it implemented fairly quickly if the revenue / costs and benefits stack up.

 

[Ianno87]

My hope is we might see a Windermere - London and return using marginal time in one of the new trains Avanti are buying. But I am sure you will all have better/more fun ideas.

Avanti's best marginal tine bet commercially would be to resurrect First Group's plan of serving Bolton with a marginal time Manchester-Euston extension (AM southbound, PM northbound)....just no chance operationally with Castlefield Corridor performance currently being on the floor (and little prospect of that changing any time soon)