Cardiff123
Established Member
ATW spent all of their own money on these interior refreshes, and made sure everyone knew this, trumpeting how much money they were investing in Wales even though it was nearing the end of their franchise.
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CrossCountry Voyagers: No interior decor change in 12 years and counting
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43096
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Except that the plan in this direct award was to use 4 sets per day, which presumably will happen when the power door programme completes. As for leasing an extra set as cover, that isn’t an option: when XC05 goes in to Wabtec shortly, XC becomes an all-power-door fully PRM-compliant operator.
Couldn't agree more, until they get a stunning refurbishment!
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221129
Established Member
In your opinion.
SWRtrainfan
Member
I don't mind Voyagers, but there are so many long-distance trains better than them!
One voyager at a time!! Shouldn't really make much difference to most TOC's apart from XC!
There is absolutely no chance you are sitting on an 18 year old seat cover though - individual seat covers get replaced on a regular basis due to wear and tear.
Goldfish62
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The covers and the colours used seem to show up dirt very easily.
Pointless comment - of course it's in my opinion.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's a mediocre operation (<fx: looks who is in charge of it and isn't surprised>) but it's nothing on LNR, Northern (also Arriva) and TPE for gross operational and planning incompetence.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Don’t most operators refurbish them as part of the major overhaul when they would be out of service anyway? But as you say all other IC operators manage at least 1 major overhaul in 12 years.
woodhouse122
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I'd take a XC Voyager over a EMR Meridian ,at least the voyagers don't have threadbare material and worn out seat padding like the 222s have 
(and seeing they are going to be replaced in a few years by Hitachi units i can't see them bothering to refurb them now)
(and seeing they are going to be replaced in a few years by Hitachi units i can't see them bothering to refurb them now)I think lots would rather have a Networker than their current stock, GWR and Chiltern still haven't replaced theirs and GWR don't seem to be in a rush to.
Grecian 1998
Member
Crosscountry's biggest 5 problems currently are IMHO:
1. Lack of capacity.
2. Too many passengers wanting to travel on very short trains.
3. Trains which are too short.
4. Overcrowding due to demand exceeding supply, often as much during off-peak as during the peak.
5. Trains with a lack of seats for the number of people wanting to travel.
Some people may notice a theme in the above points.
The ageing nature of the seat covers is a lesser concern for most travellers. That's not to say it isn't a valid point, just that it would be nice to say it was the worst thing about XC journeys...
1. Lack of capacity.
2. Too many passengers wanting to travel on very short trains.
3. Trains which are too short.
4. Overcrowding due to demand exceeding supply, often as much during off-peak as during the peak.
5. Trains with a lack of seats for the number of people wanting to travel.
Some people may notice a theme in the above points.
The ageing nature of the seat covers is a lesser concern for most travellers. That's not to say it isn't a valid point, just that it would be nice to say it was the worst thing about XC journeys...
SWRtrainfan
Member
Absolutely right, running 4-coach trains between Manchester and Bournemouth, once an hour is quite inadequate!
delt1c
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Why does the internal layout need to change? The Mk 1 TSO and FO lasted in the original layout throughout their life, as has the 317/1 and 317/5. Even the 1 st gen DMU refurbishments remained the same. However what is important is to ensure the seat cushions are changed and the paneling is cleaned / replaced as needed. What is the carbon foot print effect on a complete gutting and replacing the interior compared with a deep clean and replacement of worn components.
Goldfish62
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It would have been somewhat difficult to reconfigure the seating in a Mk 1 due to the way they're constructed.
Are you advocating not even repainting the Voyager interior? Even if that drab beige is still considered acceptable after 20 years its badly chipped and worn in places.
Considering the hammering the Voyagers get the interiors are generally not in to bad a condition - although I think they did all get a facelift with new seat covers and floor carpet as the original carpets had become very shabby. I think there was a load of the spare material left over from when they were first introduced which Virgin initially had.
I would agree with Grecian 1998 re the big issues with XC. Until this year the service was generally ok but this year has got steadily worse and since the start of autumn the service on the Birmingham-Derby corridor has certainly been nothing short of utterly shambolic. The biggest problem is overcrowding and lack of capacity even when they are running on time. I have been on one service which now regularly leaves people behind at New Street with overcrowding at unacceptable levels. I shudder to think what would happen if the train had to do an emergency stop let alone anything else. On the other hand the London services seem to have plenty of capacity but the priority for investment is in HS2.
I would agree with Grecian 1998 re the big issues with XC. Until this year the service was generally ok but this year has got steadily worse and since the start of autumn the service on the Birmingham-Derby corridor has certainly been nothing short of utterly shambolic. The biggest problem is overcrowding and lack of capacity even when they are running on time. I have been on one service which now regularly leaves people behind at New Street with overcrowding at unacceptable levels. I shudder to think what would happen if the train had to do an emergency stop let alone anything else. On the other hand the London services seem to have plenty of capacity but the priority for investment is in HS2.
I do wonder if they would be scope to free up one or two 22x's at a time if a few diagrams were to be replaced with 350's (ideally running as 8 coaches) between York and Newcastle/the Central Belt of Scotland.
Ideally it wouldn't be every service which it could be (given that some services go beyond the wires in Scotland it certainly wouldn't be all of them anyway), so as to retain some through services, and ideally with some overlap possibly to Darlington or even Middlesbrough.
Ideally it wouldn't be every service which it could be (given that some services go beyond the wires in Scotland it certainly wouldn't be all of them anyway), so as to retain some through services, and ideally with some overlap possibly to Darlington or even Middlesbrough.
delt1c
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Please reread then reply
Please reread then reply, I said clean paneling, where needed. Repainting is part part of overhaul where needed. I agree well maintained interior is required , but disagree a complete gut and reconfiguration of interior needed
Agree, some of these are in a terrible state. Seats are lumpy and worn out and the lighting is knackered. Guess what will happen to them when EMR have finished with them... they’ll end up unchanged with XC!EMR also need to look at refurbishing thier class 222 meridians ,the seats are getting shabby now (some are threadbare and all of the padding in the seats has long since gone) I'd happily ride on XC 220/221 over a Meridian
The seat fabric texture has always annoyed me and the colour scheme is now boring. Im gonna have a party when they finally change it lol
XC HSTs are by far the best long distance intercity train on the network right now.
- Pendolinos feel claustrophobic
- Voyager are fine apart from the underfloor engine noise, seating is much more comfortable than the 8xx trains. Lighting just needs replacing with LEDs. The fact it’s tucked away behind a panel means it’s not too glary and it’s about right brightness
- 80x have ultra bright lighting which is unnecessary. Can’t we have a lighting system that dimms a little when between stations and brightens when on approach to a station. The seats are too upright and hard
- Meridians interiors are completely knackered and shouldn’t be allowed out in public use!
Best lighting - XC HST
Best heating - XC HST
Best catering - none of them, it’s all awful these days but used to be the GWR HSTs
Prestige15
Member
Back then i came up with this thread about having a class 360 for XC but since there going to EMR we could instead referre class 350/2 as they currently have no future home once they leave WMT
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ss-country-could-it-work.156246/#post-3173595
phil beard
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Voyagers should be taken off XC's longest routes and transferred to CC - Nott and BNSt - Stan Air to provide suitable accommodation there. Voyagers should be replaced by 9 or 10-car bi-modes and the 170's moved to other franchises. Voyagers were always a stupid idea as they replaced much longer HSTs and loco-hauled services.
I'm not sure what c2c would want with a fleet of Voyagers, or what they're doing running in the midlands...
On a more serious note, travelling a couple if times per month between Glasgow and Edinburgh, I always try and take the XC service as they are by far the most comfortable option (with the ScotRail Carstairs service being my second choice), they may be somewhat worn, but to me, they still represent a pretty decent way of making a journey.
Goldfish62
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Yes, it's 20 years old now. Looked superb when new.
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