Northern DUO tickets - return validity

[endecotp]

Looking at a ticket like this one:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=LAN&dest=0438&rte=317&tkt=FNW

- a Lancaster to Manchester “DUO” - how can I tell from that brfares webpage, or anything else, when the return is valid? I.e. is it a day return, one month return, or something else?

Does anyone know if the ticket itself has something printed on it showing what the return validity is?

 

[Intermodal]

BRFares is quite misleading when it comes to Duos.

Duos are day returns - they are only valid for an outward and return journey in one day.

Duos are not valid before 0900, and some specific routes have evening peak restrictions. Northern lists routes that have evening peak restrictions here:

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/tickets/32-duo

The information on BRFares is not correct for all journeys, I have seen some Duo tickets shown as BRFares as having an evening peak restriction when they in fact do not, and TOC internal systems show they do not.

I'm not sure if the Lancaster to Manchester Duo is valid in the evening peak - the page does not explicitly mention it however the page is not very clear.

 

[Paul Kelly]

The information on BRFares is not correct for all journeys, I have seen some Duo tickets shown as BRFares as having an evening peak restriction when they in fact do not, and TOC internal systems show they do not.

Was that a long time ago? BR Fares has had daily updates to the fares and restriction data since earlier this year. TOCs are not supposed to change restrictions any time other than January, May and September, but increasingly they do and a blind eye is turned to it.

 

[Intermodal]

Was that a long time ago? BR Fares has had daily updates to the fares and restriction data since earlier this year. TOCs are not supposed to change restrictions any time other than January, May and September, but increasingly they do and a blind eye is turned to it.

MBR to NCL via HPL is showing as evening peak restricted when it is not, for example. In STARMobile no such restriction exists.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Lancaster to Manchester Duo is not valid for return between 4pm and 6pm. While checking this for tomorrow, there were still some advance singles available between those times.

 

[scrapy]

Just to add that Northern Duos (all day tickets only) have varying validaties some have a 9am restriction, some a 9.30 weekdays. Some have no return between 4pm and 6pm some no return 4pm to 6.30pm some no evening restriction at all. There probably are several other variants as well. You should therefore check restrictions codes between stations you intend to travel. There are some Duo tickets that have different restrictions in opposite directions. Manchester to Lancaster being one example where there is no evening restriction on that ticket but there is on a Lancaster to Manchester Duo.

 

[endecotp]

Just to add that Northern Duos (all day tickets only) have varying validaties some have a 9am restriction, some a 9.30 weekdays. Some have no return between 4pm and 6pm some no return 4pm to 6.30pm some no evening restriction at all. There probably are several other variants as well. You should therefore check restrictions codes between stations you intend to travel. There are some Duo tickets that have different restrictions in opposite directions. Manchester to Lancaster being one example where there is no evening restriction on that ticket but there is on a Lancaster to Manchester Duo.

Right, and brfares does seem to try to describe these various evening restrictions - but omits to say that the return must be on the same day!

Does anyone know if the printed ticket says this?

 

[Intermodal]

Right, and brfares does seem to try to describe these various evening restrictions - but omits to say that the return must be on the same day!

Does anyone know if the printed ticket says this?

The return portion just has a single date on it as opposed to a range of dates, like any other day return.

 

[paul1609]

Its not just Northern Duos that BR Fares are inaccurate to, theres lots of problems advertising Super Off Peak Fares to St Pancras from the South that do not exist.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Its not just Northern Duos that BR Fares are inaccurate to,

BR Fares is not inaccurate regarding Northern Duos! (Always happy to see evidence to the contrary if anybody has any of course.)

theres lots of problems advertising Super Off Peak Fares to St Pancras from the South that do not exist.

Can you give some details please?

 

[paul1609]

This page http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=HCN&dest=STP details a Super Off Peak Day Return to St Pancras route "Not HS1" "tickets are issued to London Terminals" whereas Super Off Peak Day Returns from Kent and Sussex (on not HS1 where appropriate) are only available to London Charing Cross or London Victoria including intermediate stations (and in the case of Uckfield Line) London bridge. There are no super off peak tickets to St Pancras via the Thameslink route.

 

[Paul Kelly]

But those fares are routed "NOT VALID ON HS1". That's not an inaccuracy; it's just the way the fares database is set up.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Does anyone know if the printed ticket says this?

The time restriction is not printed on the ticket. When I bought mine from the Southport ticket office the booking clerk did tell me about the restriction. Ticket was issued as 4 coupons, i.e. outward and return for each passenger.

 

[paul1609]

But those fares are routed "NOT VALID ON HS1". That's not an inaccuracy; it's just the way the fares database is set up.

Its an inaccuracy in that the Super Off Peak Fares cannot be bought anywhere that Ive found. Off Peak day returns route not HS1 to St Pancras can be bought but they are issued to St Pancras rather than London Terminals as suggested by BR Fares (for mostly the same fare as a ticket to London terminals).

 

[alistairlees]

Its an inaccuracy in that the Super Off Peak Fares cannot be bought anywhere that Ive found. Off Peak day returns route not HS1 to St Pancras can be bought but they are issued to St Pancras rather than London Terminals as suggested by BR Fares (for mostly the same fare as a ticket to London terminals).

I’m afraid you don’t understand. The fares data is indeed as BRfares.com suggests it is. Buying a ticket requires application of the routeing guide which is separate from the fares data. Brfares doesn’t do that. You’re conflating the two sets of data.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Its an inaccuracy in that the Super Off Peak Fares cannot be bought anywhere that Ive found.

But the BR Fares site does not purport to show you what you can buy (you can use other sites for that). Its merely shows you what is in the fares database; that is its "niche". It says clearly on the front page:
Note: Not all the fares shown on this site are available to the general public. The ticketing system is not simple, and some amount of prior knowledge is needed in order to use the site effectively.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Right, and brfares does seem to try to describe these various evening restrictions - but omits to say that the return must be on the same day!

Does anyone know if the printed ticket says this?

Now that is a good point. There is some hidden "unpublished" data showing the outward and return validity, which up to now hasn't been shown on the BR Fares site. I've now made some changes so it will show it, and a journey such as that in the OP will now show (on the ticket validity page) something like this:


The 1 day return validity will not be shown on the ticket; if shown at all, the validity will be displayed as "SEE RESTRICTNS". But the restrictions don't mention return validity either, nor does the published information as linked to by Intermodal in post 2 above. Quite poor information provision from Northern there.

 

[JBuchananGB]

I used a Northern Duo yesterday Southport to Wigan. I ordered it online, specifying the 1636 return from Wigan Wallgate. I was a bit surprised that this was OK, as previous discussion had indicated that Duo not valid for return between 1600 and 1800.

Turns out that from Wigan there’s no such restriction. Restrictions must therefore be destination specific.

Incidentally, the Duo was issued as just two coupons, each stating valid for two adults. This baffled the conductor on the outbound train, “never seen a Duo like that before”, and the gate line chap at Wigan on the way back, who said exactly the same.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I used a Northern Duo yesterday Southport to Wigan. I ordered it online, specifying the 1636 return from Wigan Wallgate. I was a bit surprised that this was OK, as previous discussion had indicated that Duo not valid for return between 1600 and 1800.

Turns out that from Wigan there’s no such restriction. Restrictions must therefore be destination specific.

Incidentally, the Duo was issued as just two coupons, each stating valid for two adults. This baffled the conductor on the outbound train, “never seen a Duo like that before”, and the gate line chap at Wigan on the way back, who said exactly the same.

Which site did you buy it from and where did you collect it?

 

[JBuchananGB]

Bought it on Northern's web site, and had it posted to me, as there are no ToD collection points nearby. Odd behaviour I agree, when as a walk-up fare I could have just purchased it at the Southport m2go outlet. But I bought it as part of a split-ticket journey to Lancaster where the Wigan to Lancaster tickets were 10p Northern Advances, so while booking those it made sense to order the Duo.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Trainline, explains everything