The 2019 General Election Result and Aftermath

[Raul_Duke]

Putting aside their other policies the Brexit party were propsing reform and elected chamber. I stand to be corrected but I think Nigel Farage is looking at a type of reform party going forward.

Good, I look forward to him being plastered all over the BBC 24/7 with his huge party of... *checks notes* 0 MP’s.

 

[Geezertronic]

This thread is almost as entertaining as other offerings on the internet, almost....

 

[43066]

Everything that’s wrong with the Lords in one tweet:

Zac Goldsmith, what a story. Son of humble billionaire, at 23 made editor of a magazine (owned by his uncle), gets Tory nom for leafy London seat at 32, loses the seat twice in 3 years, (also losing London mayoral race). Elevated to the House of Lords. Truly, the British dream.

As ripe a case as could be made for reform or abolition.

Indeed. What an odious individual.

And of course Shami Chakrabarti was awarded a peerage in exchange for whitewashing the issue of anti semitism in the Labour Party.


High time we got rid.

 

[notlob.divad]

It's not what I wanted, but this time round it seems very clear to me that it is what the majority wants - that's how it works.

43,6% of the vote share is not a majority last time I looked.

 

[Comstock]

Indeed. What an odious individual.

And of course Shami Chakrabarti was awarded a peerage in exchange for whitewashing the issue of anti semitism in the Labour Party.


High time we got rid.

Be very careful what you wish for.

The HoL have the power to veto an act of self perpetuation from the HoC.

Sounds boring...what does that mean? It means legislation to abolish elections, enabling acts... the sort of legislation Hitler was able to pass without checks and balances.


When I studied Nazi Germany at uni it totally changed my mind about abolishing the HoL and the monarchy

 

[TheBigD]

Good, I look forward to him being plastered all over the BBC 24/7 with his huge party of... *checks notes* 0 MP’s.

As he's demonstrated repeatedly, you don't need to have MPs to change things. He's achieved/changed/damaged* things far more than MPs have managed to.

* Delete according to your political leanings.

 

[baz962]

I will lose free movement and thus won't be able to retire abroad.

I have wanted to live in the us for at least 30 years. Those rotters will not give me a green card , hasn't destroyed my life though.

 

[notlob.divad]

For me personally? Lower rents and the rental market being less skewed in the landlord's favour in general.

It *is* definitely about rents, but also how tenants are treated over things like repairs.

It is more likely to go the other way due to Brexit. Plenty of EU countries and cities are able to put in place rent controls. Whilst the people in control of Brexit Britain have vested interests in the property market, they are far more likely to skew it further in the landlords favour than in that of the tenants. (And I say this as a landlord)

 

[underbank]

You do know that the majority of that stuff is the remit of local authorities?
Economic development is a local authority or combined authority responsibility. Tourism promotion is a local authority responsibility.

What businesses should move to these places, & what happens to the places they move from?
What support did you want for existing local businesses? Local authorities don't control business rates, or property rents.
What tourism?

Local authorities have always had limited funds and seldom fully financed large scale projects, such as new by-passes, new railway schemes, enterprize zones, "big" tourist/nature attractions, power plants, nor have they financed the govt's choice as to where to place it's public sector offices such as tax offices, DVLA, passport offices, etc. Local authorities usually only do the "small" stuff such as local bus routes, local roads, etc. It's always multi-agency working together that do the big infrastructure work. Things like new motorways or by-passes are done by the local authority, but they have to fight and compete for the central governmental funding to do it - your local council will never find the millions needed for a by-pass from within its own resources - not even in Brown's illusionary boom years.

As for tourism, if you hadn't noticed, it's actually booming in the Britain - the thing is though, it's changed, so the run down tourist resorts need central/governmental help to change their infrastructure to cope and develope to take advantage of modern tourism. Local authorities have never been able to afford to bulldoze huge areas of run down boarding houses or derelict fairgrounds - there needs to be central/governmental grants to provide the funds. At the very least, the government could help by not encouraging prisons and the DSS (or whatever it's called now) to send large numbers of people with social problems to live in those run down boarding houses which just makes the run down seaside resorts even worse (since they don't send any support to deal with their problems). Local authorities simply aren't and have never been in a position to do more than tinker around the edges with tourism - it needs a multi agency approach.

Government could extend business rate discounts, or even better, reform business rates so that, say, retail has a level playing field instead of paying far more per square metre than a warehouse. They could also reduce employers national insurance further for small businesses.

 

[underbank]

For me the only way back for Labour is to accept Brexit, and there are some signs they might do so.

It's now irrelevant. Brexit will be done and dusted by the next GE. Labour need to forget their mistake and move on.

 

[43066]

Be very careful what you wish for.

The HoL have the power to veto an act of self perpetuation from the HoC.

Sounds boring...what does that mean? It means legislation to abolish elections, enabling acts... the sort of legislation Hitler was able to pass without checks and balances.


When I studied Nazi Germany at uni it totally changed my mind about abolishing the HoL and the monarchy

On the basis that any one parliament cannot bind future parliaments, there would be nothing to stop the commons simply passing a bill to repeal whichever of the Parliament Acts gives rise to that veto (as much as that would be constitutionally unthinkable). Then it could do whatever it wanted.

I agree that checks and balances are needed but the Lords is unfit for purpose in its present state .

 

[notlob.divad]

Now that there is a large majority, there is no need to push through a hard Brexit as there is no longer a need to keep the ERG happy.

But it could well happen, as the ERG make up a significant portion of the front bench.

 

[Comstock]

I have wanted to live in the us for at least 30 years. Those rotters will not give me a green card , hasn't destroyed my life though.

Ditto. If the US opened their borders I'd be off like a shot.

Unfortunately they've got more sense so the UK is stuck with me.

 

[Raul_Duke]

As he's demonstrated repeatedly, you don't need to have MPs to change things. He's achieved/changed/damaged* things far more than MPs have managed to.

* Delete according to your political leanings.

I agree. And if most media didn’t consider anyone north of Watford to be a angry mouth breather who’s barely evolved thumbs then he wouldn’t have been held up as an example of “what the average person thinks,” so much and he wouldn’t have self perpetuated for so long

 

[notlob.divad]

Everything that’s wrong with the Lords in one tweet:

Zac Goldsmith, what a story. Son of humble billionaire, at 23 made editor of a magazine (owned by his uncle), gets Tory nom for leafy London seat at 32, loses the seat twice in 3 years, (also losing London mayoral race). Elevated to the House of Lords. Truly, the British dream.

As ripe a case as could be made for reform or abolition.

Yes, I actually think post Brexit, this is what could 'unite' the country and start mending the broken bridges in society. I am an ardant remainer, still am, will never change. You can have 100 referendums, each returning leave and I will still argue that Britain would be better off remaining in the EU. I would be happy to die on the Bridge that is Britain's membership of the European Union. I have a loathing beyond contempt for Nigel Farage and his band of merry men.

However the one thing that could get me agreeing with him in a post Brexit world, is abolition of the House of Lords a fully elected second chamber, and Proportional Representation. - I recognise that just like Brexit the idea of departing from what we have is the easy part, the complex thing is getting agreement for exactly what to replace it with.

 

[radamfi]

I have wanted to live in the us for at least 30 years. Those rotters will not give me a green card , hasn't destroyed my life though.

The difference is that the rule has changed. There has never been free movement to the US. If I had known there would no longer be free movement then I would have left the UK in my youth. Now I'm middle aged, it is a lot harder.

 

[notlob.divad]

Just as cold, wet, crowded and expensive as the UK AIUI so you might as well stay here in the UK !

why would any one want to stay in the UK, given half the chance to get out.

 

[Comstock]

The difference is that the rule has changed. There has never been free movement to the US. If I had known there would no longer be free movement then I would have left the UK in my youth. Now I'm middle aged, it is a lot harder.

There *was* effectively free movement to the US until about 1920. Providing you weren't obviously mad or carrying a contagious disease your odds of getting through Ellis Island were pretty good.

And of course Australia, Canada and New Zealand had free movement until more recently (the 1970s ?)

No doubt some people were kissed off when those rules changed as well, but I'm afraid that's life.

 

[notlob.divad]

Be very careful what you wish for.

The HoL have the power to veto an act of self perpetuation from the HoC.

Sounds boring...what does that mean? It means legislation to abolish elections, enabling acts... the sort of legislation Hitler was able to pass without checks and balances.

When I studied Nazi Germany at uni it totally changed my mind about abolishing the HoL and the monarchy

You need a second chamber, and you need checks and balances. But there are plenty of functioning democracies that elect that seond chamber so it isn't stuffed with ex ministerial cronies.

 

[edwin_m]

Whether we like it or not, everyone needs to accept it, as now Bozza has his majority it will happen.

Yes. Unless it's necessary to inform the way forward, raking over those coals is a waste of time and actively promotes division.

And to be honest, it seems clear to me that this election was basically a second referendum and unlike the first one it went decisively in favour of Brexit, and furthermore decided what type of Brexit by giving a strong mandate to Bozza's deal.

It's not what I wanted, but this time round it seems very clear to me that it is what the majority wants - that's how it works.

No. It was treated as a second referendum by those who stood to gain from doing so, but by having an election instead the issue was intertwined with numerous others, particularly the widespread dislike of the Labour leadership. Effectively a vote against Brexit (even a vote for the LibDems) was for many a vote in favour of Corbyn. In fact more people voted for parties that would have called another referendum than for those that wanted to push ahead without. This may seem to be "raking over the coals" as above, but I think it's important to establish the fact that this election isn't a public mandate for Brexit. In the likely event it goes wrong, that should be added to the charge sheet against the Tories. ​

Stay in the UK and fight for better public transport and a change in the laws on euthanasia.

With the government majority being what it is, fat chance of influencing it to do anything it doesn't want to.

 

[radamfi]

Yes. Unless it's necessary to inform the way forward, raking over those coals is a waste of time and actively promotes division.

Given what this country has done to us, we should do our upmost to harm Britain as much as possible. For example, by buying European goods and services over British ones where possible. No holidays in the UK, except maybe Scotland.

 

[Comstock]

With the government majority being what it is, fat chance of influencing it to do anything it doesn't want to.

Just FYI, any legislation on euthanasia would be a free vote, just like legislation on abortion, gay rights, the smoking ban and Sunday trading was.

There are supporters and opponents of euthanasia on both sides of the house.

So the size of the government majority would be irrelevant, at least in theory.

 

[43066]

Given what this country has done to us, we should do our upmost to harm Britain as much as possible. For example, by buying European goods and services over British ones where possible. No holidays in the UK, except maybe Scotland.

I realise you are unhappy with the prospect of Brexit.

But, respectfully, judging by statements like the above, and saying Brexit has “ruined your life” etc. you appear to have lost any sense of perspective.

Why don’t you retire to Scotland?!

 

[Peter Kelford]

Just FYI, any legislation on euthanasia would be a free vote, just like legislation on abortion, gay rights, the smoking ban and Sunday trading was.

There are supporters and opponents of euthanasia on both sides of the house.

So the size of the government majority would be irrelevant, at least in theory.

In theory. But I am assuming that this government isn't going to be a balanced, democratic one, and anyhow it's going to be just as occupied by Brexit.

I realise you are unhappy with the prospect of Brexit.

But, respectfully, from statements like the above, and saying Brexit has “ruined your life” etc. you appear to have lost any sense of perspective.

Why don’t you retire to Scotland?!

It's probably ruined my next 20 years, but I would take up a Scottish retirement if I could...

 

[radamfi]

I realise you are unhappy with the prospect of Brexit.

But, respectfully, judging by statements like the above, and saying Brexit has “ruined your life” etc. you appear to have lost any sense of perspective.

Why don’t you retire to Scotland?!

My reaction just shows how serious and important Brexit is. I hate Britain and I would renounce my nationality if it was allowed.

Cycling and public transport in Scotland is nothing like the Netherlands and is arguably worse than in England.

 

[Mojo]

That ignores the Lib Dems who were campaigning to rip up the democratic decision of the referendum despite most of their traditional heartlands (like the South West) being strongly Leave

Every region voted to leave, except London, Northern Ireland and Scotland. In none of the regions whatsoever was the result "strongly Leave," and I say that as someone who is pro-Brexit.

 

[TheBigD]

Given what this country has done to us, we should do our upmost to harm Britain as much as possible. For example, by buying European goods and services over British ones where possible. No holidays in the UK, except maybe Scotland.

What a vile, spiteful attitude.

 

[radamfi]

What a vile, spiteful attitude.

How would you feel if your country had done what it has done to me?

 

[Comstock]

How would you feel if your country had done what it has done to me?

P*ssed off, for sure. But that's life i'm afraid. We're all p*ssed off about something.

I'm p*ssed off about the shortage of cheap reasonable quality rented property in my area. Despite working full time I'm house sharing at 45 and I'm not even the oldest in my house. But life goes on and I make the best of it. Will Brexit improve things for me? Maybe, but I can't be sure.

Like I say, we're all p*ssed off about something and I'm afraid that's life.

 

[notlob.divad]

Given what this country has done to us, we should do our upmost to harm Britain as much as possible. For example, by buying European goods and services over British ones where possible. No holidays in the UK, except maybe Scotland.

I took the oppurtunity to leave and am now happily settled in an EU country. It wasn't just a Brexit thing, I had it in my mind to leave anyway to live with my Girlfriend. But Brexit was the straw that snapped it and the decision for me to move here rather than her move to the UK was made. A redundancy package gave me the oppurtunity to wrap up my life and move. This country is far from perfect, but there was no way I was going to tie my prosperity and that of my Girlfriend to the sinking ship UK. I can honestly say it has been the best decisions of my life. I moved from one of those run down ex industrial towns in the North that nearly fell to the Tories last week, to a cosmopolitan city where the cost of living is a fraction of what it was in the UK. Yes the wages are a little lower, but my relative disposable income and quality of life have improved 10 fold. It is all about perspective, and this is what those who voted leave in these places don't understand. That oppurtunity is currently open to all of them, int he future it will only be open to the rich who can afford it. However they would rather throw it all away because a couple of Eastern European's have the same oppurtunity and their 4 o-level passes can no longer make them feel superior than the Romanian builder who speaks decent English. English is the most widely spoken language across the whole of Europe, it is the language of business and people are desperate to learn it and practice it. But instead of using this they would rather take it away from others.

It is looking like Johnson is going to push for his deal rather than no deal. That gives you a further 12 months. My advice, would be, irrespective of your age, if you want to get out - Do it. Leave, or at least make serious considerations about doing it. Take the oppurtunity whilst you can. 12 months is time to get everything in place, I managed to get everything sorted in about 3-6 months.

The UK, might have a bright and prosperous future ahead of it. If it does, good luck to it. But it is not a future I want to be a part of, and by the sounds of it neither do you.