Ex Virgin Trains Voyagers, where could they go next?

[Aictos]

Define regular, and not really as their dwell time is high.

Can you explain why the dwell time is high for the fleet please?

 

[greatvoyager]

Can you explain why the dwell time is high for the fleet please?

I thought the dwell time was part of the timing to allow a bit of slack.

 

[krus_aragon]

I thought the dwell time was part of the timing to allow a bit of slack.

Technically, dwell time is the time that trains are expected to dwell (hang about) at a station. Whether dwell estimates are padded out to give some slack is another matter...

 

[The Planner]

I thought the dwell time was part of the timing to allow a bit of slack.

No, it is the time required to get the doors open, punters on and off and doors closed again. You need 1½ for a 22x. To say they are padded is laughable, it is one of the reasons the LNWR/WMT timetable is falling apart as the dwells aren't long enough at many stations.

 

[greatvoyager]

Technically, dwell time is the time that trains are expected to dwell (hang about) at a station. Whether dwell estimates are padded out to give some slack is another matter...

I always thought XC had longer dwell times to make up lost time as their journeys are so long.

 

[krus_aragon]

I always thought XC had longer dwell times to make up lost time as their journeys are so long.

That ought to be listed as pathing time or recovery time, but the net effect to the passenger timetable is the same.

 

[greatvoyager]

No, it is the time required to get the doors open, punters on and off and doors closed again. You need 1½ for a 22x. To say they are padded is laughable, it is one of the reasons the LNWR/WMT timetable is falling apart as the dwells aren't long enough at many stations.

Whenever I get on a voyager, it always seems to be a long while between the last passenger boarding and the train leaving.

 

[greatvoyager]

That ought to be listed as pathing time or recovery time, but the net effect to the passenger timetable is the same.

I agree.

 

[PartyOperator]

There's usually a longer wait timetabled at New Street and Temple Meads, but a large number of passengers can get off and on at stations like Wolverhampton and Cheltenham that often don't have any padding. Also, the extra time at New Street is often lost just on the approach to Birmingham, then if it's busy it can easily take a few minutes to exchange all the passengers and the path out of Birmingham is lost, delaying things further.

It's extra fun when delays mean multiple XC trains are expected on the same platform at New Street at the same time (e.g. the 17:12 to Bristol and the 17:30 to Cardiff both on platform 9) and they leave the displays showing this until the last minute before either announcing a platform change or acknowledging that one of the trains is going to be even later.

 

[Aictos]

No, it is the time required to get the doors open, punters on and off and doors closed again. You need 1½ for a 22x. To say they are padded is laughable, it is one of the reasons the LNWR/WMT timetable is falling apart as the dwells aren't long enough at many stations.

Is dwell time calculated from when the wheels stop to when the wheels move again?

 

[greatvoyager]

Is dwell time calculated from when the wheels stop to when the wheels move again?

As far as I'm aware, dwell time is the amount of time a train is stopped at a station.

 

[greatvoyager]

I wonder if the West Coast 221s could be fitted with some experimental parts, such as new bogies or new engines.

 

[greatvoyager]

Or double the 4-car units they have and use the 5-car units on their own.

That seems good to me.

 

[greatvoyager]

If 221s do go to XC, would the maintenance contract be added to XCs current agreement, or would it be separate?

 

[DavidGrain]

If 221s do go to XC, would the maintenance contract be added to XCs current agreement, or would it be separate?

Doesn't Barton under Needwood do the maintenance on both XC and WC Voyagers?

 

[greatvoyager]

Doesn't Barton under Needwood do the maintenance on both XC and WC Voyagers?

Yes but the maintenance for both fleets is separate.

 

[greatvoyager]

Then again if they end up at the Virgin Open Access proposal, and aren't repainted, the Virgin logo could just be reapplied.

 

[sprinterguy]

If 221s do go to XC, would the maintenance contract be added to XCs current agreement, or would it be separate?

I'd be rather surprised if they didn't end up maintained under the agreed terms of the current Crosscountry contract.

 

[greatvoyager]

I'd be rather surprised if they didn't end up maintained under the agreed terms of the current Crosscountry contract.

Makes sense.

 

[greatvoyager]

Could they convert these 20 221s to bi mode?

 

[Energy]

Could they convert these 20 221s to bi mode?

The idea has been said before, if I remember correctly they didn't have 1 bar for traction power throughout the whole unit making it difficult.

 

[greatvoyager]

The idea has been said before, if I remember correctly they didn't have 1 bar for traction power throughout the whole unit making it difficult.

Ah, I see. Be nice if something was done to make them more efficient.

 

[Energy]

Ah, I see. Be nice if something was done to make them more efficient.

Re engining is a possibility, if the Rosco is willing to pay.

 

[greatvoyager]

I'd be rather surprised if they didn't end up maintained under the agreed terms of the current Crosscountry contract.

I imagine the only difference in the contract relates to the tilting equipment, which would be removed with CrossCountry.

 

[greatvoyager]

Re engining is a possibility, if the Rosco is willing to pay.

And the cost is probably going to be the problem.

 

[greatvoyager]

I imagine the only difference in the contract relates to the tilting equipment, which would be removed with CrossCountry.

Also the sanding system is different.

 

[greatvoyager]

Will they be going off lease as soon as the new trains are introduced, or will some be retained to cover any technical problems with the new rolling stock?

 

[greatvoyager]

It seems as if the Voyager fleet is very expensive run just from the fuel. I wonder why their fuel consumption is high.

 

[greatvoyager]

Can the DfT specify where they are used?

 

[Energy]

Can the DfT specify where they are used?

Don't think so, but Avanti said they would be operating routes which terminate at: Birmingham, Liverpool and Blackpool.

Will they be going off lease as soon as the new trains are introduced, or will some be retained to cover any technical problems with the new rolling stock?

Depends on how long the lease is, they don't seem to have another customer other than XC so I doubt it would be hard to get an extra year if needed.

It seems as if the Voyager fleet is very expensive run just from the fuel. I wonder why their fuel consumption is high.

Tilt is heavy, the XC 221s only have them disabled, not removed. The heavy bodyshell doesn't help.