My idea for alternate route/stations on Crossrail 2 central core?

[Peregrine 4903]

When looking at the Crossrail 2 central core I always thought Euston St Pancras, Tottenham Court Road and Victoria stations were insufficient to serve areas of central London required and one more station was needed.

I also feel like rebuilding Tottenham Court Road station again for Crossrail 2 will cause unessecary disruption and if the whole point of Crossrail 1 was to avoid stations such as Oxford Circus as it deals with upwards of 70 million passengers a year whats the point if you create a similar station at Tottenham Court Road.

I also think the Euston St Pancras station is a bad idea and will be confusing for passengers, Crossrail 2 should either go to Kings Cross St Pancras or Euston.

My proposal for a new route would be:

Kings Cross St Pancras
Goodge Street
Piccadilly Circus
Victoria

The reason why I chose Goodge Street is that the station compared to Tottenham Court Road is far less busy, serves a similar area and isn't too far away from Tottenham Court Road station, so a potential underground walkway to Crossrail 1 could be built if required.

A new station at Picadilly Circus would allow a larger area of Central London to be served by Crossrail 2 and mean that people wishing to travel to places such as Piccadilly Circus or Leicester Sqaure don't just funnel onto other tube lines at Kings Cross or Tottenham Court Road to get there, rather defeating one of the points of Crossrail 2.

The disadvantage to this route would be engineering challenges at Goodge Street and no direct interchange with Crossrail 1. However considering Crossrail 1 doesn't directly interchange with the Piccadilly or Victoria lines I don't think it should be too much of an issue.

You could also switch Piccadilly Circus with Green Park station but considering how busy Green Park is as an interchange I thought it would be better to leave at Piccadilly Circus as it is less busy as an interchange but has more people entering and exiting which would be easier to deal with.

What are your thoughts on this?

This is just an idea and I'm not saying this should happen, or will happen or is the best idea.

 

[30907]

Factual query: has TCR been planned with CR2 in mind?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Factual query: has TCR been planned with CR2 in mind?

I read on wikipedia that Tottenhan Court Road station capacity would have to be doubled to handle Crossrail 2 but I don't know how accurate that is, it probably isn't.

I also went to a talk by one of the Crossrail 2 lead sponsors and its pretty clear that the work that would have to be undertaken at Tottenhan Court Road would be enormous, or at least very significant and would cause disruption.

 

[Bald Rick]

Factual query: has TCR been planned with CR2 in mind?

Yes it has. The stub ends of the connecting passageways are already built. There would be no disruption to existing tube or Elizabeth line services while it is built. There will of course be ‘disruption’ above ground, but that will happen wherever you build a station in a built up area.

As to the original question - surely the answer is to build the stations where the demand is. Building CR2 without a connection to the Elizabeth line would significantly reduce the benefits.

Besides the route across central London has long since been decided.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Yes it has. The stub ends of the connecting passageways are already built. There would be no disruption to existing tube or Elizabeth line services while it is built. There will of course be ‘disruption’ above ground, but that will happen wherever you build a station in a built up area.

As to the original question - surely the answer is to build the stations where the demand is. Building CR2 without a connection to the Elizabeth line would significantly reduce the benefits.

Besides the route across central London has long since been decided.

It was just an idea, I don't think its nessecarily the correct idea and I'm sure there are many people who know better than me who decided the route.

I just can't help feel like a station inbetween Tottenham Court Road and Victoria at say Piccadilly Circus would be useful, but if it can't be done, than so be it.

Also just quickly as Goodge Street station is close to Tottenham Court Road you could combine the two stations together so that there is still a direct interchange between Crossrail and Crossrail 2.

Similar to Euston St Pancras and Moorgate and Liverpool Street.

 

[Bald Rick]

It was just an idea, I don't think its nessecarily the correct idea and I'm sure there are many people who know better than me who decided the route.

I just can't help feel like a station inbetween Tottenham Court Road and Victoria at say Piccadilly Circus would be useful, but if it can't be done, than so be it.

Also just quickly as Goodge Street station is close to Tottenham Court Road you could combine the two stations together so that there is still a direct interchange between Crossrail and Crossrail 2.

Similar to Euston St Pancras and Moorgate and Liverpool Street.

The Crossrail 2 station at Tottenham Ct Road will have a southern entrance almost within sight of Piccadilly Circus tube (on Shaftesbury Avenue). To have another station in the vicinity would cost another £billion with little benefit.

Bear in mind that Crossrail stations are big. Seriously big. To put it into context, you can fit both station tunnels of Tottenham Court Road northern line station into one Crossrail station tunnel, twice.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

The Crossrail 2 station at Tottenham Ct Road will have a southern entrance almost within sight of Piccadilly Circus tube (on Shaftesbury Avenue). To have another station in the vicinity would cost another £billion with little benefit.

Bear in mind that Crossrail stations are big. Seriously big. To put it into context, you can fit both station tunnels of Tottenham Court Road northern line station into one Crossrail station tunnel, twice.

I did not realise how big the crossrail stations are, thankyou for informing me.

Fair enough then, if it will save money and get the scheme more likely to be built that can only be a good thing.

I think the only thing is you need to educate passengers that one of the exits at Tottenham Court Road is near Piccadilly Circus to stop people from doing unessecary tube journeys causing overcrowding. Although there is not much you can do about that really I guess.

Once again thankyou for your reply.

 

[Bald Rick]

I did not realise how big the crossrail stations are, thankyou for informing me.

Fair enough then, if it will save money and get the scheme more likely to be built that can only be a good thing.

I think the only thing is you need to educate passengers that one of the exits at Tottenham Court Road is near Piccadilly Circus to stop people from doing unessecary tube journeys causing overcrowding. Although there is not much you can do about that really I guess.

Once again thankyou for your reply.

Passengers learn, very very quickly!

The new entrances at Victoria, Bank, Kings Cross, Blackfriars (Thameslink) etc all got very busy within days of opening.

Re station size; I think when the Elizabeth line opens there are going to be a lot of people simply astounded by the scale of the stations.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Passengers learn, very very quickly!

The new entrances at Victoria, Bank, Kings Cross, Blackfriars (Thameslink) etc all got very busy within days of opening.

I guess I was more talking about tourists, a problem I find particularly plagues the Piccadilly Line of tourists catching a train from Leicester Square to Covent Garden.

But yes you are right.

I was at the Blackfriars southern entrance the other day and was surprised by how busy it was. The area around the southern entrance of Blackfriars is so nice now.

Once again thankyou for you response.

 

[Meerkat]

Re station size; I think when the Elizabeth line opens there are going to be a lot of people simply astounded by the scale of the stations.

there are going to be a lot of people wandering out the nearest (wrong) exit then wondering where the hell they are.
Probably quite a few who after a while realise they have been walking to the farther entrance rather than the nearest one.

 

[Bald Rick]

there are going to be a lot of people wandering out the nearest (wrong) exit then wondering where the hell they are.
Probably quite a few who after a while realise they have been walking to the farther entrance rather than the nearest one.

Happens today in any station with more than one exit!

 

[Meerkat]

Happens today in any station with more than one exit!

True but at least they are generally round the corner, not the other end of the street!

 

[Ianno87]

The Crossrail exits do appear to be quite clearly signed from looking at internal station photos, e.g. Liverpool Street will have 'Way Out - Liverpool Street' at one end, and 'Way Out - Moorgate' at the other.

When it eventually does open, I think passengers will very quickly see that the £billions have been invested in far, far more than 'just another tube line'.

 

[Bald Rick]

True but at least they are generally round the corner, not the other end of the street!

Try Blackfriars! Despite very clear signage, you can practically guarantee to find passengers in the South bank side looking for the tube anytime you are there. It’s not the other end of the street, it’s in a different borough!