Class 37 and mk1 coaches on North Wales Coast.

[Philip]

Before I go on, I know full well it won't happen and so this isn't making a case for it.

However, would you be happy to see Class 37-hauled mk1 coaching stock return to regular passenger working on the North Wales Coast line? A lot of enthusiasts were upset when the 175s replaced them and rather unusually the loco hauled stock had replaced Sprinters, meaning a golden era for this line in the 90s. For sentimental or any other reasons, would you be pleased to see them back in action in a similar form to the situation in the 90s?

Worth pointing out too that the loco hauled sets were typically formed of between 4-7 coaches, but once the shiny new 175s arrived (when they actually ran), these same services were reduced to 2-3 coaches mainly.

 

[6Gman]

No.

It's 2019, nearly 2020.

Not 1992.

 

[MatthewRead]

PRM TSI issues slam door trains can no longer be reintroduced!

 

[Journeyman]

I did a lot of 37-bashing in the mid-to-late nineties, mainly in Mark 2s with a few Mark 1s, between Birmingham/Crewe and Holyhead, often overnight. It was a lot of fun from a bashing perspective, but in terms of comfort and ambience, it was bloody awful. Many of the vehicles were in a terrible state even then, often freezing cold and damp inside, and the service was far from reliable. This completely ignores the accessibility issue.

 

[Cowley]

I did a lot of 37-bashing in the mid-to-late nineties, mainly in Mark 2s with a few Mark 1s, between Birmingham/Crewe and Holyhead, often overnight. It was a lot of fun from a bashing perspective, but in terms of comfort and ambience, it was bloody awful. Many of the vehicles were in a terrible state even then, often freezing cold and damp inside, and the service was far from reliable. This completely ignores the accessibility issue.

I did a bit in the early 90s myself. Great times, but things have moved on somewhat.

 

[Philip]

No.

It's 2019, nearly 2020.

Not 1992.

Should that make any difference when it comes to personal preference? And people still expected a train of comfort and value for money in '92, as they do now.

 

[Aictos]

Nope because Mk1s belong on heritage railways or operated as charters from nowhere to nowhere etc... There's enough issues trying to get the Mk3s ready for the new legislation which comes into law come Dec 2019 to worry about Mk1s!

A total non starter, sorry!

 

[Journeyman]

Should that make any difference when it comes to personal preference? And people still expected a train of comfort and value for money in '92, as they do now.

The Mark 1s and 2s in North Wales were crap in 92. They'll be even crappier now. Enjoy them for personal preference reasons as much as you like, but accept that enthusiasts are not regular customers.

 

[krus_aragon]

There have been a handful of loco-hauled workings on the North Wales Coast every week for the past eleven years (with MkII, then MkIII, shortly MkIV stock). Are you looking for a more regular service, or is it the use of MkI's specifically?

Operationally, how would you envisage things working? Would the trains be push-pull, or would there be a need for runarounds at each end? Holyhead still has runaround facilities, but does the other end (wherever the trains will run to)?

 

[ZL exile]

Then there is the issue of crash worthiness, along with doors and opening drop lights.. Think of the modifications and staff required. The health and safety team would be occupied for years to work out a safe system of work for that.

 

[Philip]

There have been a handful of loco-hauled workings on the North Wales Coast every week for the past eleven years (with MkII, then MkIII, shortly MkIV stock). Are you looking for a more regular service, or is it the use of MkI's specifically?

Operationally, how would you envisage things working? Would the trains be push-pull, or would there be a need for runarounds at each end? Holyhead still has runaround facilities, but does the other end (wherever the trains will run to)?

How about MkIV coaching stock, pulled or push-pulled by Class 37 locos? Therefore meeting modern standards and requirements for passenger experience and comfort, but with a bit history/nostalgia by means of the power unit. Not exactly in short supply of these locos.

I'm sure there are plenty of passengers who you wouldn't call 'enthusiasts', but who would still be impressed by the sound of these monstrous machines pulling their train.

The other end would ideally be Crewe and a return to hourly Crewe-Holyhead services.

 

[Clayton]

How about MkIV coaching stock, pulled or push-pulled by Class 37 locos? Therefore meeting modern standards and requirements for passenger experience and comfort, but with a bit history/nostalgia by means of the power unit. Not exactly in short supply of these locos.

I'm sure there are plenty of passengers who you wouldn't call 'enthusiasts', but who would still be impressed by the sound of these monstrous machines pulling their train.

Are they monstrous? They’re just type 3. They’re not Deltics or even class 47. In my day they were seen as very mundane!

 

[Philip]

Are they monstrous? They’re just type 3. They’re not Deltics or even class 47. In my day they were seen as very mundane!

They're a fair bit louder than Deltics when at full thrash and pelt. I wouldn't say Class 47s are on the same level.

 

[Bevan Price]

Class 37 is approaching 60 years old; some Mark 1 coaches may be even older. Stock that age may be suitable for heritage lines and occasional main line tours, but should not be relied upon for reliable everyday operations.

 

[Clayton]

They're a fair bit louder than Deltics when at full thrash and pelt. I wouldn't say Class 47s are on the same level.

Interesting, when I was a kid the 47 seemed louder and a bit scary, and the Deltic very scary! 31 and 37 were sort of bog standard and 50 advanced and modern.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I love that. Some people on the forum say "have a loco, it stops the coaches being noisy from underfloor engines in dmus", others say "have a an old loco, the loud noise and thrash it will bring the punters in"

 

[Jamesrob637]

Mk4s with a Mk1/Mk2 tacked on the end. Then the regulars get nice PRM-compliant stock and the bashers can have an old-school experience, damp an' all!

 

[krus_aragon]

Mk4s with a Mk1/Mk2 tacked on the end. Then the regulars get nice PRM-compliant stock and the bashers can have an old-school experience, damp an' all!

Current regulations state that you need a Mk2 or better at the end of a passenger rake, for crash-worthiness purposes. (You can have as many Mk1s as you like in the middle.) But I take your general point!

 

[Journeyman]

Class 37 is approaching 60 years old; some Mark 1 coaches may be even older. Stock that age may be suitable for heritage lines and occasional main line tours, but should not be relied upon for reliable everyday operations.

The reliability of 37s on the Cumbrian coast recently was absolutely dreadful.