My idea for all EMUs to be fitted with diesel generators

[EE Andy b1]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wcml-disruption-preston-to-lancaster-27-11-19.195812/

I think what is needed is every new EMU, and retrofit if possible to Class 397/390 and others, has a generator set fitted that can either move the train under power to clear the line or at very least be able to supply all the auxiliaries (lighting/air con) on that train. It will cost and the government should be made to pay for it.

 

[Meerkat]

I think what is needed is every new EMU, and retrofit if possible to Class 397/390 and others, has a generator set fitted that can either move the train under power to clear the line or at very least be able to supply all the auxiliaries (lighting/air con) on that train. It will cost and the government should be made to pay for it.

all good until you insist on the government paying for it. Why, rather than the users paying for it?
Is it time for this to be moved to a new “compulsory hotel power” thread?
I would like to know if batteries, constantly topped up on the move, could provide a better answer than a diesel and a load of fuel that might sit there for months unused?

 

[greatvoyager]

I think that something should be done, but I agree that batteries may be a better option, as they could probably be charged on the move, and not need any fuel, which would reduce emissions.

 

[big all]

batteries always used to be 50% later 10% lights and control on southern reducing to cab and front back [route indicator]maker lights
battery will never be good for full hotel unless very substantial and probably to a traction rating

 

[greatvoyager]

batteries always used to be 50% later 10% lights and control on southern reducing to cab and front back [route indicator]maker lights
battery will never be good for full hotel unless very substantial and probably to a traction rating

The way the world is going, I expect development of batteries will become more advanced.

 

[Tio Terry]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wcml-disruption-preston-to-lancaster-27-11-19.195812/

I think what is needed is every new EMU, and retrofit if possible to Class 397/390 and others, has a generator set fitted that can either move the train under power to clear the line or at very least be able to supply all the auxiliaries (lighting/air con) on that train. It will cost and the government should be made to pay for it.

Please remember that the government - all governments, all party’s - have no money other than that they take off the private sector first in some form of tax. They have to take it before they can give it. So when you say “the government should pay” what you are saying is we all should pay!

There’s so much more to be considered when thinking about adding a generator to a train. Fire prevention and detection, weight distribution, fume extraction system - especially if used in tunnels - maintenance down time and facilities, staff training, equipment and spares. The list goes on and on. Then there is the Environmental aspect, use of diesel fuel is being actively discouraged, I can’t see anyone being happy with installing the ability to use more!

 

[Meerkat]

If it was purely for hotel power how big a generator are we talking?
Traction power equivalent or stick it in a cabinet sized?

 

[HSTEd]

If it was purely for hotel power how big a generator are we talking?
Traction power equivalent or stick it in a cabinet sized?

Well potentially, if all that is desired is hotel and self rescue, even a couple hundred horsepower would be sufficient.

With proper attention to the traction control system you don't need much power to generate enough tractive effort to get the train to move, albeit slowly.

US Drag freight trains run with not much more than 1hp per tonne after all.

 

[Meerkat]

I guess it’s fine as long as you don’t want it to self rescue uphill!
Don’t forget it would need to do hotel and traction.....

 

[HSTEd]

I guess it’s fine as long as you don’t want it to self rescue uphill!

I don't think tractive effort would be an issue, so the train would move... just really slowly!
EDIT: Assuming power limited I at 1hp/t a modern unit could ascend Lickey at about 5-6 mph assuming it was stopped at the base of it.

Don’t forget it would need to do hotel and traction.....

Well turning the hotel loads off for a few minutes to get the train moving is likely to be much more acceptable to passengers than turning them off and just sitting in place, which is what happens today!

 

[GrimShady]

Good idea in principle but purely for hotel power on I reckon.

 

[apk55]

My own thoughts would be a class 230 power pack per 3 or 4 cars. With about 150KW power this could supply hotel power and a modest amount of traction power.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My own thoughts would be a class 230 power pack per 3 or 4 cars. With about 150KW power this could supply hotel power and a modest amount of traction power.

And if it gets really cold you can warm your hands on the flames?