Hull Trains to expand with 802/3

[Jorge Da Silva]

According to RAIL issue 893 p.16

Hull Trains is looking at new routes but wants to get the current routes right which need 3 trains. It also hinted that new routes may not go to London. Where could they go?

 

[30907]

According to RAIL issue 893 p.16

Hull Trains is looking at new routes but wants to get the current routes right which need 3 trains. It also hinted that new routes may not go to London. Where could they go?

Via Sheffield at a guess - Birmingham? Manchester?
Not saying there's paths, mind you...

 

[Failed Unit]

According to RAIL issue 893 p.16

Hull Trains is looking at new routes but wants to get the current routes right which need 3 trains. It also hinted that new routes may not go to London. Where could they go?

London via Lincoln.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

London via Lincoln.

No there hinting its likely not to be London routes

 

[Failed Unit]

No there hinting its likely not to be London routes

they have hinted at this one in the past. I suspect to keep drivers route knowledge up. May have made sense in the past but they have probably missed the boat now for getting revenue with LNER up and running.

 

[class26]

they have hinted at this one in the past. I suspect to keep drivers route knowledge up. May have made sense in the past but they have probably missed the boat now for getting revenue with LNER up and running.

But they could go from lincoln down the joint line, stopping at Sleaford and Spalding to Peterborough. If timed to be the hour between the LNER Lincoln service it would be very useful indeed. Previously they had said this was on their wish list but didn`t wish to start it until the joint line upgrade was finished. It is now !

 

[Failed Unit]

But they could go from lincoln down the joint line, stopping at Sleaford and Spalding to Peterborough. If timed to be the hour between the LNER Lincoln service it would be very useful indeed. Previously they had said this was on their wish list but didn`t wish to start it until the joint line upgrade was finished. It is now !

Not the only one that remembers it but yes stops at Sleaford (for Skegness) and spalding would be useful. I wonder what the value of even 1 train per day is on route knowledge purposes. I guess they need to run empty trains down the route anyway.

 

[class26]

Not the only one that remembers it but yes stops at Sleaford (for Skegness) and spalding would be useful. I wonder what the value of even 1 train per day is on route knowledge purposes. I guess they need to run empty trains down the route anyway.

When the ECML was being electrified for a period there were timetabled diversions down the joint line with timetabled stops at Sleaford and Spalding. A market did build up over this time and Lincs c.c. pleaded with BR to retain some sort of service over this route to no avail. I know times have moved on but I live just outside Sleaford and the number of people who drive to Grantham to catch mainline trains is ridiculous. The connections at Grantham are poor , especially those at times most useful to the majority of people (who wants to spend the best part of an hour on Grantham station on a cold, windy December night with the toilets locked out of use?

I also think the Spalding market would explode. It would be only just over an hour to London and with the price of houses in that area being very low, parking at Peterborough station difficult to find it`s there for the taking.

In a sensible world electrification would be extended to Spalding and the Peterborough stoppers start there but this is the UK we are discussing.

 

[Failed Unit]

I remember this as well. BR stopped at all main stations. It was useful as passengers for Grantham preferred to take a train from Sleaford rather than a bus from Peterborough. Same as Lincoln for Newark and Gainsborough for Retford.

You are of course right. Because connections are not guaranteed many from towns on the joint line drive to the nearest railhead.

I know many from Lincoln that refuse to use the shuttle because they don’t like waiting 1 hour at Newark for a missed connection. Now it is direct many of the new users at Lincoln previously drove to Newark. I am sure the same would happen at Sleaford / Gainsborough should HT start. With many driving from places like Boston to avoid the lottery of changing.

 

[bramling]

When the ECML was being electrified for a period there were timetabled diversions down the joint line with timetabled stops at Sleaford and Spalding. A market did build up over this time and Lincs c.c. pleaded with BR to retain some sort of service over this route to no avail. I know times have moved on but I live just outside Sleaford and the number of people who drive to Grantham to catch mainline trains is ridiculous. The connections at Grantham are poor , especially those at times most useful to the majority of people (who wants to spend the best part of an hour on Grantham station on a cold, windy December night with the toilets locked out of use?

I also think the Spalding market would explode. It would be only just over an hour to London and with the price of houses in that area being very low, parking at Peterborough station difficult to find it`s there for the taking.

In a sensible world electrification would be extended to Spalding and the Peterborough stoppers start there but this is the UK we are discussing.

I agree that a regular and fast London service would be quite transformational for Spalding, which as a town is potentially pleasant but currently a little rough. Whether the locals would appreciate an influx of London commuter types and a hike in property prices is another matter however.

 

[Clip]

I agree that a regular and fast London service would be quite transformational for Spalding, which as a town is potentially pleasant but currently a little rough. Whether the locals would appreciate an influx of London commuter types and a hike in property prices is another matter however.

Well its happenning elsewhere so they would just have to lump it. Though think of the money to be made from selling their house

 

[Failed Unit]

One other consideration now. Paths south of Peterborough. I doubt the original idea is possible now.

 

[class26]

One other consideration now. Paths south of Peterborough. I doubt the original idea is possible now.

You are right and together with the stated aim that the new route "may not be to London" makes me think it could be via Sheffield to Birmingham though terminating there might cause problems. Journey time would be just over 2 hours, depending on the number of stops.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Everyone seems to be assuming a southerly route, but is there anything to stop them turning north at Hambleton Junction and heading towards York and other destinations in a northerly direction?

 

[class26]

Everyone seems to be assuming a southerly route, but is there anything to stop them turning north at Hambleton Junction and heading towards York and other destinations in a northerly direction?

I also think about that but are there paths up the ECML ?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I also think about that but are there paths up the ECML ?

True - that could be tricky.

They could head direct Hull to Leeds couldn't they? That would fit with having two units not tied up with the London service; we're probably looking for something that can be operated with one, leaving one spare, unless they have options on a few more 802/3s which they could still exercise - in which case I'd be wondering about Carlisle via Leeds...

 

[30907]

I also think about that but are there paths up the ECML ?

And is Hull to Newcastle/Scotland a viable market?

 

[class26]

And is Hull to Newcastle/Scotland a viable market?

Let`s also remember wherever they wish to serve they must prove not to be primarily abstractive in revenue terms and of course need to get the necessary rights. I still reckon Brum as it gives access to so many destinations. Not sure about paths though

I would have thought also that only one train would be available as the fifth set will remain as a spare surely ?

 

[Grimsby town]

I think years ago, before the 180s turned up and services actually ran, i think Glasgow via Leeds was seriously looked at it. Not sure if that will be investigated again though. Birmingham would make sense but will the 802s be able to run such a route. They will probably have to be in diesel mode for the whole route. Personally, I think the most sensible way forward would be to expand their London services first. I know they are keen on running a service to Bridlington. They could also run 10 carriage trains on the ECML with the other unit continuing to Grimsby or Scarborough via York.

 

[class26]

I think years ago, before the 180s turned up and services actually ran, i think Glasgow via Leeds was seriously looked at it. Not sure if that will be investigated again though. Birmingham would make sense but will the 802s be able to run such a route. They will probably have to be in diesel mode for the whole route. Personally, I think the most sensible way forward would be to expand their London services first. I know they are keen on running a service to Bridlington. They could also run 10 carriage trains on the ECML with the other unit continuing to Grimsby or Scarborough via York.

As mentioned above there is likely to be only one train available for this new route as the final (fifth) 800 will be a spare I would think. Hull - Glasgow is going to be 5 hours (11 hours for the round trip) meaning only one round trip per day. Very unlikely.

 

[swt_passenger]

There’s only a finite number of open access paths on the wider ECML, AIUI Hull trains and GC basically share an hourly path through most of the day, and the “First open access” Edinburgh will share a path in opposite hours to the LNER Middlesborough. Presumably fully justifying the hint that “it won’t go to London”.